Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Cliff

Just name the water, then when that gets questioned, just produce the photo with the sign in the background and be done with it.

IF ONLY,

If that was going to happen, it would have from the start. That would at least have gone someway to prove it was in the UK.

But as they don't have those facts, then it is only fiction, until proven otherwise. But its been said, they cannot prove it's in the UK, by none other than themselves.

No where is Harry Hill when you need him.

 

[Philip]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

You're right, Philip. Those geologists ARE very, very good at what they do. It's why they are highly qualified - to doctorate level, Philip (that's a very high standard, Philip...#

They have made the study of rocks and rock formations their life's work and could make a pretty accurate assessment of any rock or rock-photo taken from just about any part of the world. This is what makes them 'experts', Philip. That said, one needn't be an expert to see the stark contrast in the stone-types to be seen in the MG shot and the Ontario shot.

What's your 'ology' in, Philip?
.

Ça fait déjà quelques années, mais si je me souviens bien j'ai obtenu une qualification "niveau A" en géologie et plusieurs qualifications "niveau O" sur divers autres sujets en géologie et géographie. J'ai aussi une qualification en sociologie et j'ai étudié le comportement des personnes qui ont un complexe d'infériorité et qui compense leur manque de confiance en eux en essayant constamment de remettre en cause l'intelligence des autres.

Où est ce que vous vouliez en venir ?


So that aside, back to the Carp mr Hatton, the photo shows a tiny patch of non descript soil around his feet mr Hatton. Are you claiming these Geologists mr Hatton Docterate or otherwise can determine from it that this cannot be anywhere around lake ontarios 19000km2 surface area or indeed Canadas 1000000km2 superficie ?

Any idea Mr Hatton? ...oh sorry what qualifications in geology do you have Mr Hatton? ...i already told you my geology qualifications #A level practical and theory and O level theory# Mr Hatton so whats your geology qualifications Mr Hatton? Is it more or less geology qualifications than me Mr Hatton ?

More importantly mr Hatton do you think you need any geology qualifications or indeed any qualifications whatsoever Mr Hatton to be able to already know:

YOU OR ANYONE ELSE CANNOT DETERMINE ITS NOT CANADA FROM THAT PHOTO OF A 3 FOOT SQUARE BIT OF SOIL.

 

[tonybull]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

IF ONLY,

If that was going to happen, it would have from the start. That would at least have gone someway to prove it was in the UK.

But as they don't have those facts, then it is only fiction, until proven otherwise. But its been said, they cannot prove it's in the UK, by none other than themselves.

No where is Harry Hill when you need him.

No mate, they know the water in my opinion but don't want anyone else to know they just want everyone to believe the Big Carp was NOT caught in Canada. That's the motive behind all these threads.

If everyone came on the thread and said we don't believe a word of Paul S and everyone connected to him concerning the Canadian theory and we believe Martin caught the Big Carp in England then that would be the end of it, but it as not worked out that way.

They only slipped the

This is what Chris Yates had to say.
“I’m fed up with some of the carp anglers of today, although some are very nice. But I would certainly like to see Martin Gay beat the carp record. His large common carp is an absolutely genuine British capture, and I hope he returns to the old private reservoir where it was caught to catch an even bigger one”

in the hope people would think, Chris Yates, we better take stock, he's a big cheese in the world of fishing and if he say's something we need to listen and take note.

Don't work like that in the real world, people can think for themselves.

 

[geoffmaynard]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Don't work like that in the real world, people can think for themselves.

I love the irony here

 

[bennygesserit]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I love the irony here

I love the irony of Cliff objecting to a post being deleted

 

[The bad one]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Mr Selman are you suggesting I’m not telling the truth in someway by what I said about the conversations with Eric in the car and him never referencing having a spat with MG?
Don’t ever remember you being present in the car at anytime over 3 or 4 years we picked him up, so how the hell would you know what was discussed?

As to your point about being in touch with Nick Melling on FB I suggest you ask him whether any such conversations took place with Eric or not over this matter. Oh and whilst you’re asking him that, you can ask him whether we( me and him) ever had a follow up conversation on our daily breaks and lunchtimes over same 4 years period we spent together at university about any comments Eric made about MG. We didn’t, and the reason we didn’t was, because it was never raised by Eric “ever” in any journeys we made together.

As a registered fish farmer who works with fish and carp I’m surprised you’d make such a comment as this one and in particular the comment about England. “There are no lamprey in any stillwaters in the SE of England, or England anywhere. In forty years of carp fishing I have never caught a carp in the UK with a lamprey bite or heard of any.” Sea lampray which are anadromous run the Lake District rivers and find there way into lakes such as Bassenthwaite Lake, Ennerdale Water, Windermere, Coniston and so on .

It’s also not surprising you’ve never seen any carp with sea lampray rasps on them because when they return to freshwater they stop feeding. Therefore even if they did get into a SE Stillwater they never be noticed because they wouldn’t parasitise on any coarse fish.

 

[Philip]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I still think the original un-cropped photo's exist but think its a matter of breaking trust to produce them.

Yes I think they still exist too.

 

[Philip]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Cliff

Just name the water, then when that gets questioned, just produce the photo with the sign in the background and be done with it.

Or at the very least Mr Hatton could say if he knows were the unedited photos now are. I have asked him that question at least 10 times but have yet to get a straight anwser...

 

[Graham Elliott 1]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I must say. It makes a change from Barbel wars.

Cliff, I must say to be honest some of your personal attacks in an earlier post would normally get a one month ban from the Editor.

Only joking. Sort of.

 

[paul1_]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Mr Selman are you suggesting I’m not telling the truth in someway by what I said about the conversations with Eric in the car and him never referencing having a spat with MG?
Don’t ever remember you being present in the car at anytime over 3 or 4 years we picked him up, so how the hell would you know what was discussed?

As to your point about being in touch with Nick Melling on FB I suggest you ask him whether any such conversations took place with Eric or not over this matter. Oh and whilst you’re asking him that, you can ask him whether we( me and him) ever had a follow up conversation on our daily breaks and lunchtimes over same 4 years period we spent together at university about any comments Eric made about MG. We didn’t, and the reason we didn’t was, because it was never raised by Eric “ever” in any journeys we made together.

As a registered fish farmer who works with fish and carp I’m surprised you’d make such a comment as this one and in particular the comment about England. “There are no lamprey in any stillwaters in the SE of England, or England anywhere. In forty years of carp fishing I have never caught a carp in the UK with a lamprey bite or heard of any.” Sea lampray which are anadromous run the Lake District rivers and find there way into lakes such as Bassenthwaite Lake, Ennerdale Water, Windermere, Coniston and so on .

It’s also not surprising you’ve never seen any carp with sea lampray rasps on them because when they return to freshwater they stop feeding. Therefore even if they did get into a SE Stillwater they never be noticed because they wouldn’t parasitise on any coarse fish.

I'm not accusing anyone of not telling the truth, the spat with Eric and MG occured in print in Coarse Angling magazine and just because he didn't mention it in journeys to SACG meetings with you where I probably attended as Chairman a few times is irrelevant, it happened. He also spoke to me about it at least once at the NW BCSG meetings he attended.

Martin Gay says he caught the carp in a SE carp water he had forgot about and not in the lake district lakes which contain no carp. So how did the lamprey mark both he and Robin Monday agreed on get on the 48 common when they don't exist or they don't feed in freshwater in the SE as you say?

However they do feed on all species in Lake Ontario Canada where they are classed as a pest to the fish farming industry, which kinda suggests that's where it was caught from, doesn't it?

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Tonybull,

I think there are many things missing from this story, and that is all i can see it as.

So what if Chris yates had something to say about it, who cares.

Background missing from photos, now the photos are missing, disposed of or not ?? Would you dispose photos of your husband or wife, with such a so called historic catch, I doubt it.

There are far to many things that don't add up, but clearly, to Cliff and Eddie, 2+2 =5 cos thats what they have.

I think more now than ever, that these fish were from Canada.

It's up to Cliff and Eddie to come up with the photo's, name the water, and a correct weight. So far they have fallen a long way short, and i doubt, well i am sure they don't have the proof as required.

Its been said Martin wasn't interested in records etc etc, yet was quick to show photos around, then change them ?? Very Strange

 

[Cliff Hatton]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Paul: kindly stop referring to the 'lamprey bite' as though it were fact. I understand the crude psychology behind your oft-repeated 'statement of fact' but it doesn't wash with anyone, I'm sure. There are a great many good anglers on this site, the majority of whom will have seen fish with pink, red, orange marks on them. A lamprey 'wound' is very distinctive; your so-called 'bite' on Martin's superb 50lber cannot be identified as such from the 6-7 ft the photo was taken from. It's an inconsequential mark sustained in a way nobody knows or cares about.

Why ON EARTH would anybody believe a word you say, Paul, given the ever-growing list of farcical assurances you've tried palming us off with? From the moment you told us there were mountains in the original pics that you didn't see to your very recent assurance that the common or garden golden rod isn't found in Britain, your whole discredited, desperate story is shot-through with complete and utter nonsense and, frankly, I'm growing a little tired of locking horns with a snake-oil salesman. Contrary to what you've said about me and the excellent Eddie Benham, we have not bullied, cajoled or twisted your words - these have been your hallmarks. Eddie and I have always kept to the facts and have been as straight with people as possible: we've nothing to hide, whereas you have 25 years of story-telling to straighten-out.

Yes, Paul, this is the editor's version of the childish 'nose-thumbing' and 'tongue-poking' emoticons that accompany your each and every FW post - well, until very recently when the pennies started to drop.

Eddie has given us the verdicts of no fewer than 4 - FOUR - geologists who all agree that the MG swim could not be at the warm water outlet at Lennox - or was it Kingston Hospital, Paul? His newly-formed contacts at the power plant have told us that fishing is prohibited there and that it is only really possible from a boat. Above all, the photos Eddie obtained bear no relation whatsoever to the meticulously detailed accounts Martin wrote. Now, Paul...go away and stop insulting our intelligence.

 

[thecrow]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

And now for something completely different.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBKAG0ut9Ds

 

[bennygesserit]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

The warm water might extend quite a way past the initiative outlet

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

The warm water might extend quite a way past the initiative outlet

All the more reason you'd need a boat then?

BTW, has Coco gone to the bank yet? Jus wunnerin an all like. He could pick up a deerstalker and giant magnifying glass while he's at it.

 

[bennygesserit]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

The Warm water might extend to a place where you don't need a boat besides proving you might not be able to directly fish the outlet doesn't prove that the fish are British

 

[The bad one]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I'm not accusing anyone of not telling the truth, the spat with Eric and MG occured in print in Coarse Angling magazine and just because he didn't mention it in journeys to SACG meetings with you where I probably attended as Chairman a few times is irrelevant, it happened.
He also spoke to me about it at least once at the NW BCSG meetings he attended

We’ll have to agree to differ on the first sentence for now, until I check in my library of said mags of the time. However, you had long finished as the Chair by the time Eric started attending SACG meetings.

Martin Gay says he caught the carp in a SE carp water he had forgot about and not in the lake district lakes which contain no carp. So how did the lamprey mark both he and Robin Monday agreed on get on the 48 common when they don't exist or they don't feed in freshwater in the SE as you say?

I never said he allegedly caught the carp in the Lake District, if you reread what I wrote. I pointed out “correctly” that you were wrong to suggest there was no sea lamprey in “English stillwaters” by referencing the lakes in the Lake District where they are present.

Oh btw there are some carp in many of the Lakes in the Lake District as a result of bad angling practices mainly through escapes from livebaiting with them by anglers down the years. Whether they are a viable fishing option is a debatable point. Nevertheless they are present!

They are only sea lamprey rasps if you accept the argument you’re advancing. I don’t and I suggest more likely to be an unhealed ulceration of some kind. Down the years I’ve seen quite a few sea lamprey rasps on salmon and attached sea lamprey to salmon, never have I seen anything as big as that mark on that carp. The disc, if it is a disc, and that is unclear from the photographs available, is 4-5 inches across based the size of the fish. That’s one hell of lamprey to cause such a wound. Whilst sea lampreys are the largest of the lamprey family their rasps range from 1 -2 inches maximum and are caused by the internal teeth of the creature sucker mouth, which I’m sure you are aware are jawless and don’t have the ability to have a biting motion. In reality they attach themselves to the fish by the sucker moth and drive the teeth into the body of the host fish where they stay attached sucking the blood and bodily fluids from the fish.

However they do feed on all species in Lake Ontario Canada where they are classed as a pest to the fish farming industry, which kinda suggests that's where it was caught from, doesn't it?

I’m also well aware of the problems sea lamprey have caused in the Great Lakes but the are the same species as we get in the eastern part of the Atlantic they are not a huge sized subspecies that has evolved in them. They are Petromyzon marinus !

---------- Post added at 16:26 ---------- Previous post was at 15:45 ----------

Benny some months ago we had a debate about power stations and the input of warm water outlets, I referenced the Trent and the then artificial temperatures they created on it. Warm water outlets do create locally warmer river temperatures and therefore dependant on the volume of outflow from the station it’s entirely possible that effect could create warmer lake temperatures for several 100s of metres of plume from the power station.

It would be interesting to know the volume discharge from the station on a daily bases and its recorded reach into the lake. And given the Envo regs the station has to work too, it will in my view be recorded.

I can only think of one lake here in the UK where warm water was put into a lake and that was Trawsfynydd nuclear station north Wales, which I fished a few time back in the 80s where the water always felt warmish even in winter.

 

[dorsetandchub]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Phil,


I appreciate it's not quite the same thing but "The Hotties" where Pilkington's discharged in t'cut at St Helens used to throw up some unusual canal catches, especially this time of year.

I'm sure you'd know better than me if it's still ongoing or, more likely, been transferred to Eastern Europe or further afield but I do remember reading about somebody catching a net of fish containing goldfish from there before such things became popular and available to stock.

Doubt very much that particular fun fair / pet shop troubled themselves with a s 30 application.

If you didn't get a swim on that length in winter, you could pack up, go home and watch the Boxing Day test match or whatever.

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

Who's to say Martin didn't fish from a boat ??

We don't know the truth, and doubt we ever will.

 

[paul1_]

Re: Martin Gay's Historic Carp Captures - THIS is 'Overwhelming Evidence'...

I won two matches on the Trent at Shardlow in the AT Winter League in the late 1970"s and the warmer water in the Trent at that time was noticeable for miles....and I fished Trawsfynd as the Bad One did for big perch also in the 1970s when every other lake in the area was frozen.

So when Martin Gay's family said he fished and caught the big commons near the warm water outflow at Lennox it could be anywhere from there to Kingston Town where his relatives lived. It was also in the heat of summer, so the water would have been warm along the shore for miles. Only Martin or Yvonne would know!