Otter Damage... Awful!

[Peter Jacobs]

In norse mythology there is a character called Ótr who was a dwarf and spent his time transformed into an Otter greedily eating fish.

Sadly the Otter was killed by mistake by a chap called Loki who was required to pay weregild (the price of a man) to Ótr's father who was King Hreidmar

Loki had to fill the inside of Ótr's skin with white gold and wrap the outside in Red gold, but one whisker remained visible so Loki lost his most prized posession, his ring (not that one) but the ring of Andvari.

The story was meant to show the benefits of not only adhering to the letter of the law, but also sticking to the spirit of the law as well.

Only mentioned as it just seemed sort of apropos to the subject at hand . . . . . . . .

 

[Paul Boote]

I would advise treading carefully where the brown and furry fish eaters are concerned, we may be being watched right now...

We are - http://tn.loljam.com/14/upload/post/201307/20/12140/7f0bbe2b272bf3a1cd40952d126983e9.jpg

 

[Mr Cholmondeley-Corker (PaSC)]

In norse mythology there is a character called Ótr who was a dwarf and spent his time transformed into an Otter greedily eating fish.

Sadly the Otter was killed by mistake by a chap called Loki who was required to pay weregild (the price of a man) to Ótr's father who was King Hreidmar

Loki had to fill the inside of Ótr's skin with white gold and wrap the outside in Red gold, but one whisker remained visible so Loki lost his most prized posession, his ring (not that one) but the ring of Andvari.

The story was meant to show the benefits of not only adhering to the letter of the law, but also sticking to the spirit of the law as well.

Only mentioned as it just seemed sort of apropos to the subject at hand . . . . . . . .

Well I watched the Thor movie recently with my kids and that Loki fella tuned out to be a not very nice chap I can tell you.

 

[Paul Boote]

Indeed, Loki the Joker turned out to be the rotten apple in the Valhalla barrel; the other Gods had to take up arms (plus Hammer) and go against him.

 

[tiinker]

In norse mythology there is a character called Ótr who was a dwarf and spent his time transformed into an Otter greedily eating fish.

Sadly the Otter was killed by mistake by a chap called Loki who was required to pay weregild (the price of a man) to Ótr's father who was King Hreidmar

Loki had to fill the inside of Ótr's skin with white gold and wrap the outside in Red gold, but one whisker remained visible so Loki lost his most prized posession, his ring (not that one) but the ring of Andvari.

The story was meant to show the benefits of not only adhering to the letter of the law, but also sticking to the spirit of the law as well.

Only mentioned as it just seemed sort of apropos to the subject at hand . . . . . . . .

Loki was a all-round bad egg at one stage he turns himself into a sea trout to escape Odins wrath pity the otters did not get him. As you may know a sea trout has no wrist to its tail and cannot be gripped like a salmon.

 

[symonh2000]

If otters were not so cute to look at I doubt we would be having this discussion.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Well I watched the Thor movie recently with my kids and that Loki fella tuned out to be a not very nice chap I can tell you.

Well, he was into bondage among other stuff, as well as being the nasty who cut off all of Sif's hair while she was asleep . . . . . . .

Some sagas call him the The Wizard of Lies

 

[reeds]

The only people obsessed with reintroducing otters everywhere are anglers.

They are not being reintroduced everywhere.

They are not being reintroduced at all.

All the while this fallacy exists, perpetuated by anglers, we will continue to go round, and round, and round, and...

You cannot win a battle that doesn't exist.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

The only people obsessed with reintroducing otters everywhere are anglers.

They are not being reintroduced everywhere.

They are not being reintroduced at all.

All the while this fallacy exists, perpetuated by anglers, we will continue to go round, and round, and round, and...

You cannot win a battle that doesn't exist.

FACT: Otters were reintroduced into river systems without agreement from Angling Bodies, regardless of whether or not a requirment existed.

FACT: Of course it is anglers who are outraged as I doubt anyone else's sport has been disturbed.

The "battle" as you put it is to ensure that this sort of thing never happens again, and as such is more than worthy of discussion.

 

[mick b]

FACT: Otters were reintroduced into river systems without agreement from Angling Bodies, regardless of whether or not a requirment existed.

FACT: Of course it is anglers who are outraged as I doubt anyone else's sport has been disturbed.

The "battle" as you put it is to ensure that this sort of thing never happens again, and as such is more than worthy of discussion.

So ....if I want to drill an oil well somehwere I will consult everyone who will be affected by my oil well and all its associated long term environmental problems AND if those consulted do not agree with my oil well I will not drill it mg:

Or......do I drill my oil well regardless, because its in the national interest

Ding....seconds out......round two...

 

[tiinker]

You may well be right in what you say but will anyone take any notice. I doubt it very much. you may as well discuss what came first the chicken or the egg. As things are angling will always get the dirty end of the stick just because we are anglers.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

So ....if I want to drill an oil well somehwere I will consult everyone who will be affected by my oil well and all its associated long term environmental problems AND if those consulted do not agree with my oil well I will not drill it

Or......do I drill my oil well regardless, because its in the national interest

Ding....seconds out......round two...

Well Mick, you certainly wouldn't be allowed to drill it regardless.

There is very strict control and a mountain of regulations covering who, when and where you can drill, plus licensing and environmental considerations that would make an ordinary chap's head spin.

Hence, the example is extraneous inasmuch as the reintroductions that took place were done, as Phil said, before there were any regualtions.

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------

You may well be right in what you say but will anyone take any notice. I doubt it very much. you may as well discuss what came first the chicken or the egg. As things are angling will always get the dirty end of the stick just because we are anglers.

We only get the dirty end of the stick tiinker because we usually sit silent and don't make a fuss about much at all.

Think about this the other way around for a moment, if it were published that a cull had taken place without any consultation, or permissions sought, then, rightly so, those repsonsible would be condemned as veritable eco-terrorists.

And yet the opposite is apparently lauded as some superb act of environmental service.

Doesn't seem too kosher to me . . . . . . . and if we don't make a "fuss" then what is there to stop it reoccurring?

Allowing me to quote dear old Edmund Burke again . . . . . .

All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

Now, before the bunny huggers get all up their own fundamnetal orifices, again, I don't mean that the Otter reintroductions were per se "evil" I use it only to illustrate the point regarding anglers always getting the mucky end of the stick

 

[mick b]

But what about the objections from joe public who will be most affected.

Na, sod em, drill anyway, joe public will soon learn to live with the environmental problems wont they?
.........

Now where the best location to release those Wolves

.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

But what about the objections from joe public who will be most affected.

Na, sod em, drill anyway, joe public will soon learn to live with the environmental problems wont they?
.........

Now where the best location to release those Wolves

.

The way it works is that Joe Public elect people to represent them and it is those people who make the rules, regulations and laws.

It might not be a perfect system but the alternative doesn't bear thinking about . . . . does it?

As to the release of Wolves, well, Scotland seems a decent place to start . . . . . . .

[ffs insert a smiley thing > > > > HERE in case they think I'm being serious]

 

[The bad one]

Well Mick, you certainly wouldn't be allowed to drill it regardless.

There is very strict control and a mountain of regulations covering who, when and where you can drill, plus licensing and environmental considerations that would make an ordinary chap's head spin.

Hence, the example is extraneous inasmuch as the reintroductions that took place were done, as Phil said, before there were any regualtions.

Quick one as the Hound need to smell otters
Not quite true that one is Peter, Oil when first found to be useful, Wells were dug all over the place in the US with no control. The controls/regs evolved over a long time and no doubt still evolving. But yet you can't or don't want to see the same thing happened re introductions. How strange eh?

 

[mick b]

Anglers are their own worst enemy.
All we need to do is buy the waters we fish, not pay rent forever.
Game anglers do it, some private groups do it, why don't we all do it?

Before anyone moans about the cost think about all the thousands you spend on tackle over the years.

As an example, my club (actually a limited company) brought our lake and surrounding woodland with an interest free loan from a few wealthy members which we repaid through increased subscriptions.
We now have appreciating assets and security of tenure -- for ever!

All it needs is a little bit of forward thinking by club committees and some diversion of personal finances for a few years, then when the next whizzo decides to introduce a species you maybe consulted.
Until then you only have the tenants option and if you don't like something....move!
.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Not quite true that one is Peter, Oil when first found to be useful, Wells were dug all over the place in the US with no control. The controls/regs evolved over a long time and no doubt still evolving. But yet you can't or don't want to see the same thing happened re introductions. How strange eh?

Well Phil, I've worked in the Oil and Gas industry ever since the early days of the Forties Fields and we have always been covered by Rules, Regulations and Laws.

Ever since Piper Alpha those Laws have been tightened and new rules and regulations introduced, but for over 40 years (virtually the entire life of the North Sea fields) we have been bound by stringent rules, regulations and laws.

To support your line of argument regarding US explorationation you have to go back an awful lot further than that.

I am obviously very glad that there are now rules in place to stop the ad hoc introductions of any more Otters.

 

[reeds]

Eco-terrorists, bunny-huggers, evil.

Guardians of the waterways.

I wonder how to square that circle?

Also dare I say that even though foxes are fair game, there is no shortage of them. And those who stock their ponds with chickens know to put a fence around them.

Wild chickens are on their own, as they always have been.

 

[tiinker]

Well Mick, you certainly wouldn't be allowed to drill it regardless.

There is very strict control and a mountain of regulations covering who, when and where you can drill, plus licensing and environmental considerations that would make an ordinary chap's head spin.

Hence, the example is extraneous inasmuch as the reintroductions that took place were done, as Phil said, before there were any regualtions.

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------



We only get the dirty end of the stick tiinker because we usually sit silent and don't make a fuss about much at all.

Think about this the other way around for a moment, if it were published that a cull had taken place without any consultation, or permissions sought, then, rightly so, those repsonsible would be condemned as veritable eco-terrorists.

And yet the opposite is apparently lauded as some superb act of environmental service.

Doesn't seem too kosher to me . . . . . . . and if we don't make a "fuss" then what is there to stop it reoccurring?

Allowing me to quote dear old Edmund Burke again . . . . . .

All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

Now, before the bunny huggers get all up their own fundamnetal orifices, again, I don't mean that the Otter reintroductions were per se "evil" I use it only to illustrate the point regarding anglers always getting the mucky end of the stick

You can say what you like look at the history of angling . The only time anyone has taken what anglers have said was when they bought in the Salmon and freshwater fisheries act back in the 20s . We will always come well down the line and no matter what you say or do it will stay that way . Nobody gives a T0SS about anglers except anglers and that is a end to it. if you cannot accept that then you are going to be banging your head against a brick wall for the rest of your life.

 

[bennygesserit]

Well Mick, you certainly wouldn't be allowed to drill it regardless.

There is very strict control and a mountain of regulations covering who, when and where you can drill, plus licensing and environmental considerations that would make an ordinary chap's head spin.

Hence, the example is extraneous inasmuch as the reintroductions that took place were done, as Phil said, before there were any regualtions.

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:07 ----------



We only get the dirty end of the stick tiinker because we usually sit silent and don't make a fuss about much at all.

Think about this the other way around for a moment, if it were published that a cull had taken place without any consultation, or permissions sought, then, rightly so, those repsonsible would be condemned as veritable eco-terrorists.

And yet the opposite is apparently lauded as some superb act of environmental service.

Doesn't seem too kosher to me . . . . . . . and if we don't make a "fuss" then what is there to stop it reoccurring?

Allowing me to quote dear old Edmund Burke again . . . . . .

All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

Now, before the bunny huggers get all up their own fundamnetal orifices, again, I don't mean that the Otter reintroductions were per se "evil" I use it only to illustrate the point regarding anglers always getting the mucky end of the stick

Anglers do make a fuss they never cease to stop making a fuss.
The opposite of a cull is not an introduction , the opposite of a cull is no cull.

Insert smiley thing just to signify that as ever Peter you put up a good clean and interesting fight