Safety lead Clips

[Stuart Dennis]

Good research Dave, and most suitable old chap.

 

[GrahamM]

Gary said: "As it happens I rarely use fixed/semi fixed leads now as I believe when you fish with a tight line, especially on a river where the water tension increased the resistance that running legers (unless margin fishing, touch-legering, etc) act as bolt rigs anyway."

And another reason is that when barbel fishing at least, I fish direct to the rod tip which, again, offers a bolt rig.

And again, come to think of it, so do the very heavy indicators that some stillwater anglers use. And not all of them have them tight to the rod to indicate drop-back bites.

This thread is making a lot of us take a deeper look into how we're fishing, not just for the safety aspect, but the whole bolt-rig concept - and more.

 

[Gary Knowles]

"And again, come to think of it, so do the very heavy indicators that some stillwater anglers use. And not all of them have them tight to the rod to indicate drop-back bites."

I did mean to say that Graham. I beleive practically all rigs, which are fished to a tight line to a certain extent act as bolt rigs regardless of the clip/bead arrangement at the business end...

 

[GrahamM]

It's true to a great extent that there is no such thing as a true running lead, either in rivers or stillwater, but the concept of the running lead is what makes a rig reasonably safe.

A lead only begins to be truly running under certain conditions, one of those being that it is VERY heavy and not at excessive range. Or the lead is quite firmly embedded in silt or weed. Or the fish pulls directly away from the rod when there is no bow present in the line which is not very likely.

Apart from the latter, the fish is just as likely to feel the line running through the swivel as it is to feel the lead move.

 

[Dave Rothery]

thats why i dont bother with bolt rigs any more, i think the "running" rigs have enough "bolt".

 

[Bill Maitland]

Just a quick one, where does the method feeder fit in to this, and what are you're opinions as I have been using it lately for carp and tench.
This surely has the same problem but on a lesser scale !!

 

[Bill Maitland]

The reason for my question,is Gary did an article on this recently.

 

[Stuart Harvey]

I'm a bit late on this thread and haven't read it all, but I've had my doubts those clips too. I just can't imagine many fish being able to pull the lead out of the clip especially when the tail rubber is on.

However omitting the clip from my setup but keeping the swivel and tail rubber gave me a rig which I quite like. I now thread a lead up the line followed by a tail rubber. Tie on a swivel, then push the tail rubber over the swivel. The lead can then be pushed onto the tail rubber giving a semi fixed kind of setup. It also creates a small boom. Its probably been done before, but I thought I'd tell ypou about.

 

[Gary Knowles]

Bill,

Is a fair point and a good question.

Basically I get around this by using a swivel that is smaller than the size recommended by the method feeder manufacturer. The feeder then fits very loosley on the swivel. The rubber collar on the mini-fox method feeder is strong enough to take the strain of the cast as the force is applied against the collar. This way should I crack off on the cast and a bream/tench/roach take the bait then the line will pull away from the method feeder with very little resistance. As Graham touched on earlier I fish the 'method' feeder with heavy bobbins wound tight to the butt ring so despite the end rig not being the classic 'bolt effect' I believe it is taught enough to be effective.

I have also (and still sometimes do on very slow flowing rivers like the lower Severn) fitted the method feeder to a run ring and fished it as a traditional running feeder set-up. Again as this is fished tight to the rod tip I believe it to be an effective'bolt' arrangement.

However even with the arrangments detailed above. I always drag a lead through my swim half a dozen or so times before fishing and if there is a snag between me and where I'm fishing I either change my angle of attack or fish a straight running lead rig. Let me say that last bit again because it is important. I will not fish a method feeder unless I'm almost 100% sure there are no snags in front of me.....even with the implementation of an undersize swivel.

Oh, and my hooklink is always lighter than the mainline......

Gary

 

[Dave Rothery]

same with inline leads. always make sure the swivel is much smaller that the rubber connector. the drag thru the tubing is enough for them to bolt (if you use tubing/leadcore, which you should)

 

[Bill Maitland]

Gary,
I also use a swivel that is one size smaller than recomended and comes out easily, but I also use Graham's trick and use a float stop behind the rubber collar.
I feel that this is quite safe and has been working well. My hooklink is the same strength as my main line or lighter.
Good advice about checking you're swim, not nearly enough people do this and cast blindly in to the lake or river.

 

[Cakey]

Must admit Im lost now ,you lot can ram a swivel up a method feeder but I must not ram one up a bead.

I said on page 5 that I use a swivel smaller than the one recomended,whats the difference ? ?

 

[Murray Rogers]

Just carry on doing what you do Cake.

I refuse to be told how my rigs should be tied or arranged.

If they work for me and they have been safe, then I am happy using them.

 

[Gary Knowles]

Murray,

I don't think anyones telling people what to do, or how they should fish.

Going back to basics my only gripe is that 'safety clips' should in fact be called 'carp safety clips'....nothing more.

 

[Stuart Bullard]

Gary - I agree to an extent, especially with your and Graham's view about additional bolt rig effects, which at the end of the day is the underlying reason for "safety rigs". I dont touch the "nipples" on the solar set up, but I think I will look at it now. Personally I also tighten up the baitrunner a bit as well if I am using a running rig, although not so that the rod disappears !!

However, I would have assumed a double figure barbel has the power to match carp, if not more so. And having watched some anglers the other day haul out 5 - 10lb carp on heavy duty gear, using the Nash safety clip, I would ascertain that this is equally as dangerous i.e. its not the fact that it is a carp, but its the raw power required to eject the rigs if snagged.

Personally I can see no reason now (having read this thread) to use any form of bolt rig for river fishing......not that I used it that much anyway.

 

[Stuart Dennis]

OK, OK, OK??..this thread is receiving superb debate, which is always a fantastic benefit for all of us. This debate is not only online but has moved offline also. I received a call from an excited Cakey who had been up half the night beta-testing the so called ?safety rig? with variant findings. I won?t spoil what he found out, but rest assured he will continue his tests this evening and will formulate his outcome on here within the next couple of days. Although his first few tests have thrown up some really interesting and shocking points.

On another note, I said at the beginning of this thread that I would explain why I have issues with these clips so here goes, although safety was not the issue: I recently came back from a session in France where the fishing was hectic and intense to say the least. To catch the fish you needed the range, to get the range, you needed heavy leads ie 3oz plus. The issue came was when you gave it the gun and cast hard, the lead would hit the water and when you pulled back to tighten the line in order to sink the line and set the bobbin etc, there was nothing to pull against. The lead had dropped in the cast. Now as with all our fishing you would normally find that a slight adjustment would fix the problem. So I played with smaller leads, I trimmed the nipple but no matter what I did, I couldn?t adjust the situation to find the winning formula. For every 5 casts, I?d lose the lead twice. I?d cut the nipple back and the same again, I?d try smaller leads and once again no luck. I wouldn?t have an issue if I could have adjusted the rig and could find the right balance, but no mater how I played around, the end result was the same and that was 2 out of 5 casts I would lose the lead. This to me is an unbalanced scenario.

 

[Les Clark]

Stu, what "range" are you talking about?

 

[Stuart Dennis]

110-120

 

[Les Clark]

Stu,did you try it at mediam range,80yd`s,? did the same happen?

 

[Gary Knowles]

feet or centimeters ?