Safety lead Clips

[Les Clark]

Gary,no mate ,inche`s.

 

[Les Clark]

Stu, where you,maybe pulling back into a snag,that you didn`t know was there?

 

[Dave Rothery]

oi stu, thought you said you could cast gently with lo-diameter line and small lead and get the range? ;p

thats why i used the solar "clip" dont lose the lead, and the rings big enough for the ring to go over knots etc.

 

[Stuart Dennis]

Yes I did Dave, and your point is?

 

[Stuart Dennis]

Les, at less range the problem did not exist. There were no snags, no weed nothing. When I changed to running rigs I did not have the problem. My conclusions are that I would use bream safety rigs for range up to 70 yards and helicoptor and running rigs for ranges that exceed that distance.

I remember having a casting competition with rik at sandhurst in the winter.....(although he'll probably prefer to tell you the outcome himself)...

Barney - 'up yours'

 

[Mike Lee]

Oi oi

I take it that bait boats were not allowed on this water?

 

[Stuart Dennis]

Unfortunately not mate, however for the amount of fish we were catching it would have bee too slow and funnily enough too precise.

 

[Dave Rothery]

point is (pointless point scoring exercise)

"To catch the fish you needed the range, to get the range, you needed heavy leads ie 3oz plus. The issue came was when you gave it the gun and cast hard......"

so not gently and not light leads

 

[Stuart Dennis]

Dave, you really are showing your true bitter colours, but for the purpose of covering your attempts to discredit, I will of course answer. However, after this, I would expect you to go back to picking the wings off of fly's.

Here goes, firstly thanks for reading my article, hope you learnt something. In the article it stated "They had standard set-up's" and "having their spools topped up with 8lb line" and "they were hitting the G spot every time" and "if they were using heavy high diameter lines" and "Their accompanying argument being" etc etc etc with an emphasis on THEY!!!!!

My posting on the other page, related to ME when I spoke about ME being in France, ME losing leads, ME Giving it the gun.

Score your own points dear, im not interested i'm afraid.

Now on with the thread.....

 

[Budgie Burgess]

Nearly all Pike anglers still put their faith in free running rigs.Both short and long distance casting with some of these rigs suffers from the problem previously mentioned with running carp rigs.The rig "opening up" in mid cast caused by the lead not being fixed.As previously mentioned this can be solved by tying the lead to the swivel with PVA.The draw back you find with this is the need to dry your hands (always wet when livebaiting) and your rig each time you rebait and cast after landing a fish.So the logical step for us Pikers who use these type of rigs was too look at a different way.The answer was easily found by looking at sea anglers "rotten bottom rigs" a pin and clip system easily incorperated in to thye rigs.Surely you could easily adapt this to carp rigs? Also have a look at the "release weights" used by US anglers who troll baits with the aid of down riggers.These are attached to a seperate line but the mechanism they use is a spring loaded affair which jetisons the weight upon a take.Surely better to leave a few pannel pins in the lake after a drama than a complete rig with lead attached.Me? personnaly I am quite happy too use my CV rig when using a shock/snag leader in potential cut off situations.Yes admitedly the helicopter system this rig is built around is not perfect the problems allready having been previously high lighted in this thread,but I can live with those in return for its benifits.This is the whole reason we dveloped the rig.Admitedly the comercial versions that were subsequently made IMO were not as free running (due to them being made to look nice and neat to no doubt aid sales!)they are still a very safe rig.

 

[Dave Rothery]

you are, as always, right mr dennis. i appologise in full and without exception. i look forward to the casting lesson that i no doubt need, due to my lack of accuracy in not being able to cast into a tree or island at every opportunity.

many thanks

dave

ps. rod hutchinson was only joking when he said that carp roost in trees!

 

[andrew jackson]

I know I am a bit late into this thread, but I havnt been posting much over the summer months.
Can I just go back to the two rigs highlited by Graham and the thought process that has gone into Grahams club insiting that lead clips are cut down. First and formost I think this whole issue (excluding the use of clips by non carp anglers) hinges on a lot of ifs. If a rig becomes detached, if smaller fish whittle the bait down, if a smaller fish hooks itself if it becomes tethered you get the picture. Its not imposible but unlikely in my oppinion. Allow me to throw one or two of my own ifs into the fray. What if fred is winding it up for the big chuck, and if his doctored clip gives way, what if that 3oz zipp lead smashed into Steves head who just happens to be fishing the oppisite bank. Now that for my money is a issue worthy of serious debait. Personaly Graham if the club has a problem with the use of clips I think banning them outright would be the best action to take, because cutting clips down is a disater just waiting to happen.

Now onto the second rig and I am putting my flack jacket on here as I write, its a potential killer I am afraid. Most rigs using float stops work great in your hand, in a sterile environment where the angle of pull is parallel and you dont have a stonking great ball of silk weed stuck on the line. Lets face it this whole thread hinges on the fact that we fish in a weedy snaggy environment that is littered with debri and all manner of nasties that have the potential to stop those float stops from moving. The use of two stops makes me laugh, why two? You use two because if you use one it keeps sliding up the line so we use two stops in our safe rig so they dont slide????????????? Now what is that all about? Or is it just me who is losing the plot here?
Sorry fo the neggative nature of my post and I am not trying to have a pop at anyone or be a smart arse, it is just that these two issues jumped out at me from the thread.

 

[Stuart Dennis]

Superb speaking with you this morning Andy and I enjoyed the catch-up!

I think your post is top notch and agree whole heartedley!

 

[Rodney Wrestt]

Hi Andy welcome back,
The use of the two stops doesn't prevent the line from moving completely it just increases the friction and the presure reqired to do so, even if a ball of weed is wrapped around the line it wouldn't make a difference in my opinion. Have you ever had weed wrapped around a rig and the only way to get it off it to cut the line and slide it straight off, that's the same as what would happen if the rig broke and the end tackle was left in the water. The line would slip through as it's not having to saw or cut it's way across the weed (like we do when pulling it off the line), and the fish would/should only have the length of line and the hook to get rid of.

 

[andrew jackson]

Few I will take my flack Jacket off now LOL.
Yeh it was great to speak to you Stu and I am realy glad you are back on your feet and posting again. I dont automaticaly agree 100% with everything you write mate, but you never fail to get me thinking and that is great. ;O)

 

[andrew jackson]

The trouble with weed on your line is when you try and pass it through a orifice it compacts and locks up the line. In bad cases we have all had weed lock up the line in our tip rings, a problem that is made worse the smaller the hole it has to pass through. It would only take a relative tiny amount of weed to lock up a float stop. Also the double stops are secure enough to resist sliding when a lead slams into them at the highest speed we can muster. That is without any outside factors acting upon the rig.
The other aspect that worries me is that we always think of how a rig performs in a two dimentional way, in a true snag situation the angle of pull can be from virtual any position, and by the very fact it is snagged there will be other unknown variables acting upon the lead area.

 

[Stuart Dennis]

Andy, no no no sir, I agree with everything you say! (and I know you agee with everyting I say, thats why I pay you mate) Unless you wanna change our finnancial arrangement that is??

Rodders, In speaking to cakey and the outcome of his second night of tests, he's got some really interesting results mate regarding float stops that will suprise even you sir!

Come-on Cakey, get on with it!

 

[Bill Maitland]

I don't know about flak jackets but I'm putting my armour on for my next comment.

Anyone who livebaits for pike or any fish is a hypocrite if they have made comments on this thread.

There is no justification!!!!

 

[Les Clark]

Bill,I fish for pike,dont use live`s becouse they are banned on our water`s.
I can see where your comeing from,but to my mind,another game alltogether,do you pikefish,do you use livebait`s, if so what size.
most live`s used are 2,3inche,maybe 4,would they take most carp bait`s,I dont think so.

 

[Les Clark]

Bill, I have used live`s In the past,I must admit,not happy doing it, but to my mind, top pike bait,but allso care for for any roach,bream, tench that I catch while carping,(what I mean,I dont kick them about,as some "carper`s "have been known to do),allso I dont want to teather them.
The fact that I may use live`s for pikeing,but allso care about the same fish while carping,"hypocrite" no,your just splitting hair`s mate.