Safety lead Clips

[Bill Maitland]

Les,
I don't pike fish but I do a lot of perching and I don't, and wouldn't use livebaits.
I don't use the type of clips talked about, but you can't criticise their use if you are prepared to stick trebles in a 4oz roach.
A fish is a fish, where do you draw the line!!

 

[Budgie Burgess]

Bill what an absolutely stupid statement.I will not be drawn on this thread but if you would like to discuss "livebaiting" on another thread then I would be pleased to do so.It would be nice if you have any experience of the matter rather than just basing your opinions on some sentimental shit.Then again if your argument will be put together with the same amount of thought as your post here dont bother.

 

[Bill Maitland]

Budgie,
You're missing my point, if people want to livebait that is their perogative, I don't like it, but have mates that do.
I stand by what I said, you can't criticise the clips and still think it fine to livebait, where is the logic.

It is not ok to fish with a risky clip, but ok to stick treble hooks in little fish, sorry I don't get it!

 

[Budgie Burgess]

I cannot use a 5" roach as a bait (be it live or dead)without causing it to die.I can howevever by carefull selection and use of tackle avoid the death/damage to other fish.The first case is unfortunately unavoidable other than by choice and I choose to livebait.The second case is avoidable with little or no adverse affect to my fishing.As for hypocritical,how does the old saying go..Whats the difference between casting out and sticking a hook in a fish and sticking a hook in a fish then casting out? If your answer to this is that you think livebaiting is unessesary then please start another thread.BTW do you use deadbaits for Perch?

 

[Rodney Wrestt]

Andrew J said,
"The other aspect that worries me is that we always think of how a rig performs in a two dimentional way, in a true snag situation the angle of pull can be from virtual any position, and by the very fact it is snagged there will be other unknown variables acting upon the lead area."

Hmmmm more food for thought.


Stuart,
Can't be as surprising as the sunshine, walk on water photos you took of The Cakey fellah.

 

[Budgie Burgess]

On this snagged fish lark.Whenever I have had a fish snag me (obviously we are talking carp here)I have always gone out to the snag.Once at it I have either landed my fish!! or found it to be gone.So it leads me to ask (other than crack offs,and we have allready discussed this) how is the main line being broken(therefore stopping you releasing the fish) in the first place? or cant modern Carpers swim?

 

[Les Clark]

Bill,Right,let`s get bloody silly.
do you use maggot`s?
Do you use worm??
Do you eat meat?
Do you eat Fish?
You buy your meat/fish from a supermarket or butcher the same as most of us,they are butchered for us,do you worry about that?,or is it the fact that it come`s prepacked,so it`s not a "real" animal?
Or are you a veggie?
You are talking about a few dozen small roach a season,have you ever seen a pack of pike,corner a shoal of roach,and then go through and feed on them,they rip the crap out of them.
I care for what I catch,regardless,and you are just trying to nit pick,you may not agree with livebaiting,fair play,but don`t
try to say that those who do,don`t care about fish wellbeing,becouse if so,your well out of order.

 

[Bill Maitland]

I don't use deadbaits but stick hooks in plenty of lobs. If I was sentimental I wouldn't fish at all. I use method feeders and in line leads which also have their failings and I make that choice too, its a risk I take.
I'll live with it, just as you will regarding livebaiting.

 

[Bill Maitland]

My point is still this, we criticise these clips but it is ok to livebait.

 

[Dave Rothery]

budgie, thats a stupid statement about swimming (seems to be loads around today). i can, i live in devon and i surf at every oppourtunity and have (and would) swum out for fish. but you snag a fish in the middle of february and you are om your own, got no access to a boat, are you going for a swim? or do you carry a 5mm wetsuit with you? doesnt matter how good a swimmer you are, you can die of hypothermia. even in summer, the water on top of a bar can be bathwater warm, but the gully will be much, much colder. add the problem of thick weed and your asking for problems. there have been many anglers die in this way, or trying to rescue others. at the end of the day, its only a fish!

your point about the line snapping is why i sometimes use a leader with braid, you know where the lines going to break, but you still cant allow for bars, mussels etc.

 

[Les Clark]

Budgie,I can`t swim,A bloke yr`s ago at fordwich,car park swim,hooked a carp,weeded up,he could`nt swim,so decided to "walk" out,and free the fish,walked out about 40yd`s with a landing net,up to his neck and froze,I watched him but couldn`t help,luckely a young lad about 18 saw what was going on,dived in and saved him,saved his life,sorry ,love my fishing,but won`t die for it ,go for a break.

 

[Stuart Dennis]

I don't agree with the way Bill put his argument across (in the first instance) but must confess that there are some points in his view. I for one would not livebait as I think (personally, my opinion, me, myself and I) think its cruel. Yes I am happy to drag a fish out of its natural environment and across the lake by its mouth as that sits fine with me, but livebaiting don't do it for me!

Does this make a me a bad man?

 

[Les Clark]

Stu,No that`s fine,I`m not %100 happy with it,but will use live`s when I can.
But Bill`s augumement was,why worry about teathering fish with the clip,and yet use live`s for pikeing.
Not the same ballgame,allso,as you have told me before,you don`t pikefish,so you don`t know the score.

 

[Dave Rothery]

course it dont stu. like you , i think its cruel, but if someone else wants to do it, it aint breaking any laws, its fine. like someone once said " i dont support your view, but i fully support your right to have one".

les - same thing happened from the richies, i watched it happen. he found a new break in the bar (no-one knew it was there) and went from 4ft to 8ft in one step. he couldnt swim, but luckily managed to pull himself back onto the bar. we were all too busy lining up the new feature to see if he was ok .
if your going to swim out, put the lid on a bait bucket and use it as a float, or buy a cheap lifejacket - it might save your life.

 

[Dave Rothery]

actually, i think "cruel" is the wrong word, as natures the cruellest thing around. it just isnt my "cup of tea", but if i did pike fish, i would probably use it. hard not to if your blanking on a dead mackeral and all around are catching. whats the difference between using a dead roach and a live one thats going to die soon?
or is this getting too philosophical?

 

[Les Clark]

Dave, won`t do it mate,was out in the boat on fordwich,with Ron meer`s,he saw this bar,looked like it was just under the water line,steped out of the boat and went right under,the bar was about 6ft down,he could swim,but not worth the risk.

 

[Warren 'Hatrick' (Wol) Gaunt]

Mate of mind died, no life jacket, aint worth it. Les has a major point there, its a lot f**kin deeper than you think.
Sorry, on with the safety clip fings you lot.......

 

[Bill Maitland]

Les,
I always worry about tethering any fish. The clips are a risk, some people take that risk, though I don't use them. How can we criticise potential harm but still livebait.
At what size does a fish become precious ?
All specimens started of in ounces and I treat them all the same, I'm not being sentimental, as you can get through lots of small perch on worms before you get any big ones. Also you have to endure the odd gut hooked fish no matter how careful you are, so I'm not claiming to be some kind of saint !

 

[Dave Rothery]

would you use peeler when sea fishing? or live sandeel?

 

[Dave Rothery]

les - i'm not condoning swimming out, but people will got out whatever you tell them. if they're going to go, use something to help you float when you get into trouble. and make sure you've got a friend to call for help