Cakey
Well-known member
whats good for the goose is good for the gander .............
love it Frothey a Redmire 70
love it Frothey a Redmire 70
What defines a truly English carp?
- Thread starter dezza
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Stealph Viper
Well-known member
I suppose i would have to ECHO your sentiments
Cakey
Well-known member
is a french strain a sh*t by pierre ?
Chris Frankish 2
Well-known member
Kevin Clifford's book , A History of Carp Fishing, is what started my interest in carp history. He has a lot to answer for after the money its cost me buying old tackle and visiting old waters.
I agree Ron, any carp angler remotely interested in what happened before should invest in a copy.
---------- Post added at 07:57 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------
I've come to believe that most waters only produce large specimens when they're in their prime. The conditions in Redmire must have been spot on with water quality, available natural food and the general "richness" of the pool. We've seen the same effects in the numerous gravel pits that were dug to service the building of the motorway system around the country, most noticeable the M25.
Like all things natural though their richness wanes with age and if left to their own devices and nature they end up supporting a biomass of fish but no longer have the capability to supply enough natural food to grow specimens.
I agree with your point about the 76 drought because we have recently conducted a drain down of our 250 old estate lake following discussion with the EA. We used the opportunity to reduce the head of silver fish, remove snags and more importantly in this thread we limed the exposed lakebed while it was dry. I suppose you could call this giving the lake a "service" as such and from what we've seen this year with the explosion of marginal plants, weed and natural food it's exactly what the doctor ordered. The fisheries officer at the EA described it as "the best thing that's happened to the lake in the last 100 years"
---------- Post added at 08:09 ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 ----------
Well said Cakey.
We , as a syndicate, have been supporters of ECHO since the early days and raise money for them each year at our social.
We have a trout lake upstream of ours and the progress that ECHO is making into the tightening of the rules governing health checks, research into carp diseases and such will hopefully stop any chance of the trout lake's lease passing on to someone keen to make it an "instant" big carp water stocking it with diseased carp from either here or abroad.
With the work we're doing to improve the lake and introduce new stock for the future I can't see how we can NOT support ECHO.
We can't change whats happened in the past but we can sure as hell look after what we've got now.
I agree Ron, any carp angler remotely interested in what happened before should invest in a copy.
---------- Post added at 07:57 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------
I've come to believe that most waters only produce large specimens when they're in their prime. The conditions in Redmire must have been spot on with water quality, available natural food and the general "richness" of the pool. We've seen the same effects in the numerous gravel pits that were dug to service the building of the motorway system around the country, most noticeable the M25.
Like all things natural though their richness wanes with age and if left to their own devices and nature they end up supporting a biomass of fish but no longer have the capability to supply enough natural food to grow specimens.
I agree with your point about the 76 drought because we have recently conducted a drain down of our 250 old estate lake following discussion with the EA. We used the opportunity to reduce the head of silver fish, remove snags and more importantly in this thread we limed the exposed lakebed while it was dry. I suppose you could call this giving the lake a "service" as such and from what we've seen this year with the explosion of marginal plants, weed and natural food it's exactly what the doctor ordered. The fisheries officer at the EA described it as "the best thing that's happened to the lake in the last 100 years"
---------- Post added at 08:09 ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 ----------
Well said Cakey.
We , as a syndicate, have been supporters of ECHO since the early days and raise money for them each year at our social.
We have a trout lake upstream of ours and the progress that ECHO is making into the tightening of the rules governing health checks, research into carp diseases and such will hopefully stop any chance of the trout lake's lease passing on to someone keen to make it an "instant" big carp water stocking it with diseased carp from either here or abroad.
With the work we're doing to improve the lake and introduce new stock for the future I can't see how we can NOT support ECHO.
We can't change whats happened in the past but we can sure as hell look after what we've got now.
dezza
Well-known member
What Mr Inzani might not realise is that from 1966 to 1976, I spent a great deal of my spare time in pursuit of carp. I was also a member of the British Carp Study Group, and together with a guy called Don Wittich, an ex member of the Coventry Specimen Group, had our own little chapter 6000 miles away.
As regards Redmire, the history of the pool was fairly well documented by the owners at the time. It was constructed by damming a small stream in a particularly fertile valley in Herefordshire which as most will know has perhaps the mildest climate in Britain. Initially the pool was created purely as a landscape feature and to hold a lot of ducks which were shot every year. Then the pool was stocked with brown trout, most likely by fish from the Surrey Trout Farm. When this took place is hard to establish but it could have been done by Lt Col Barnardiston who acquired Bernithan Court in 1926.
Then during the 1930s, the weed apparently grew to the extent that the pool became unfishable. My educated guess is that Lt Col Barnardiston, asked Don Leney of The Surrey Trout Farm what he would recommend to keep the weed down. Leney suggested carp and in 1934, 50 small king carp of the Galician strain, reared by De Nederlandsche Heidemaatschappij were stocked into Redmire.
A further stocking of small carp were also added in 1947. It was from this stocking that I think produced the 8lb and 14 lb fish caught by Walker in subsequent years. But Clarissa, Raspberry and Yates big fish were all the grown-on fish from the 1934 stocking. Yates fish by the way was the most stupid of the lot. It was caught on many occasions by Jack Hilton, Tom Mintram and others.
Today, Redmire is only a shadow of what it was in the 50s and 60s when no doubt a few monster carp swam its waters; fish that have never been caught. I think you would be lucky to catch a 15 pounder today.
Even the trees have been chopped down and there is a plethora of those infernal wooden platforms!
As regards Redmire, the history of the pool was fairly well documented by the owners at the time. It was constructed by damming a small stream in a particularly fertile valley in Herefordshire which as most will know has perhaps the mildest climate in Britain. Initially the pool was created purely as a landscape feature and to hold a lot of ducks which were shot every year. Then the pool was stocked with brown trout, most likely by fish from the Surrey Trout Farm. When this took place is hard to establish but it could have been done by Lt Col Barnardiston who acquired Bernithan Court in 1926.
Then during the 1930s, the weed apparently grew to the extent that the pool became unfishable. My educated guess is that Lt Col Barnardiston, asked Don Leney of The Surrey Trout Farm what he would recommend to keep the weed down. Leney suggested carp and in 1934, 50 small king carp of the Galician strain, reared by De Nederlandsche Heidemaatschappij were stocked into Redmire.
A further stocking of small carp were also added in 1947. It was from this stocking that I think produced the 8lb and 14 lb fish caught by Walker in subsequent years. But Clarissa, Raspberry and Yates big fish were all the grown-on fish from the 1934 stocking. Yates fish by the way was the most stupid of the lot. It was caught on many occasions by Jack Hilton, Tom Mintram and others.
Today, Redmire is only a shadow of what it was in the 50s and 60s when no doubt a few monster carp swam its waters; fish that have never been caught. I think you would be lucky to catch a 15 pounder today.
Even the trees have been chopped down and there is a plethora of those infernal wooden platforms!
Last edited:
Frothey
Senior Member
a lot of the tree's died off in the late 70's/early 80's. on such a small pool, the tree's do need managing or the lake will suffer. I really do think it would be worth netting it, de-silting it and only putting a fraction of the better fish back in. Leave it for 10 years and see what happens.....
Chris Frankish 2
Well-known member
Redmire today
I'm sorry Ron but you're being a little harsh about how Redmire is today.
A "plethora" of platforms?
The platforms to the islands have been there years and the only others I can remember from a couple of years ago where the one in the No 1 pitch and the one at Greenbanks. Hardly a "plethora".
A good level of silt was removed from Redmire in recent years, 2001 I think, which, following on from earlier in this thread, should help with the pool's natural food and nutrition level in the coming years.
The biomass in the pool is also being reduced to encourage the growth of the stock. An instruction from Les, still in place I think, to put any common under 10lb in weight into a holding net for removal to Little Redmire seems to be having the desired effect and hopefully we'll see the older fish holding their weights and the younger ones coming on.
I was quite happy with fish to 29lb on my visit as well as the "scamps" which were put in the net.
I'm sorry Ron but you're being a little harsh about how Redmire is today.
A "plethora" of platforms?
The platforms to the islands have been there years and the only others I can remember from a couple of years ago where the one in the No 1 pitch and the one at Greenbanks. Hardly a "plethora".
A good level of silt was removed from Redmire in recent years, 2001 I think, which, following on from earlier in this thread, should help with the pool's natural food and nutrition level in the coming years.
The biomass in the pool is also being reduced to encourage the growth of the stock. An instruction from Les, still in place I think, to put any common under 10lb in weight into a holding net for removal to Little Redmire seems to be having the desired effect and hopefully we'll see the older fish holding their weights and the younger ones coming on.
I was quite happy with fish to 29lb on my visit as well as the "scamps" which were put in the net.
dezza
Well-known member
You must understand Chris that when I visited the pool in 1978, I was not supposed to be there, in fact I was probably trespassing. But I did notice a couple of wooden platforms and that gave me the impression that The Carp Society or some other organisation had been at work, making pitches where pods could be placed.
If I remember right, the big willow, next to where Walker caught his record had been cut down. But it's a long time ago and what you see as the mists of memory are not often true.
If I remember right, the big willow, next to where Walker caught his record had been cut down. But it's a long time ago and what you see as the mists of memory are not often true.
Chris Frankish 2
Well-known member
Aye, I suppose if you stood down by Greenbanks then all of the platforms I mentioned would be visible and give the impression that there were a lot of them.
I seem to remember that the big willow was lost, either to a storm or disease, but replaced with a new tree to take it's place. You can see the new tree in the pic I've inserted which is from 2005
Stealph Viper
Well-known member
It still looks like a Magical Place to be Fishing ............ I would rather fish a place of Beauty with plenty of Beautiful Fish in it regardless of there size and species, rather that fish a Barren Pit with loads of Huge Fish in.
dezza
Well-known member
Well is does look pretty, make no mistake.
Have you ever thought about approaching English Heritage or some other such body to make sure that the pool remains for posterity. I fear that one day a government quango or a ruthless future owner of the estate will send in the bulldozers and destroy this prime bit of angling history.
Let's face it worse things have happened in the past. Cheshunt is covered with concrete and Arlesey Lake has been filled in!
Have you ever thought about approaching English Heritage or some other such body to make sure that the pool remains for posterity. I fear that one day a government quango or a ruthless future owner of the estate will send in the bulldozers and destroy this prime bit of angling history.
Let's face it worse things have happened in the past. Cheshunt is covered with concrete and Arlesey Lake has been filled in!
Some interesting stuff here. The last time I fished Redmire was in 1963 when I went with ****, Fred and Ken Taylor and at that time there were no platforms that I can remember. In fact the lkae was fished so infrequently, most of the swims were quite over grown and it was necessary to gently cut one's way in to the water's edge.
As Ron says, Ray Clay was involved in the Northamptonshire scene but the guy who really put Billing Aquadrom on the map was Bob Reynolds who had, if I remember correctly, the best bag of carp ever recorded in the UK. I can't remember the weights of the fish, but at least one weighed in excess of 30lbs which, in the late '50s was a very big carp.
Although probably spawned in Holland, the Redmire carp were from Leney's fish farm and the strain was kept alive. In the early '60s, **** and FJT bought some more of them and put them into a blocked off piece of canal in Buckinghamshire. They also grew at a tremendous rate and in the late 60s we put them into Snowberry Lake where I was the fishery manager. They were thriving there but having done all of the work we lost control of the lake to a guy called John Curry who did what we saw to be unviable deal with the owner. We had kept the membership small to maintain the atmosphere of the fishery, but its fame began to spread and of course once that happens you get people wanting to move in on your success. Nearly all of the carp in the canal went to Snowberry, but a few did escape the electro operation and in the '70s, Rod Lane had one in excess of 20 lbs from it. Unfortunately soon after that, poluution killed everything in the water. I believe that all of the Leney carp in Snowberry were also killed though obviously the two incidents were totally unrelated.
As Ron says, Ray Clay was involved in the Northamptonshire scene but the guy who really put Billing Aquadrom on the map was Bob Reynolds who had, if I remember correctly, the best bag of carp ever recorded in the UK. I can't remember the weights of the fish, but at least one weighed in excess of 30lbs which, in the late '50s was a very big carp.
Although probably spawned in Holland, the Redmire carp were from Leney's fish farm and the strain was kept alive. In the early '60s, **** and FJT bought some more of them and put them into a blocked off piece of canal in Buckinghamshire. They also grew at a tremendous rate and in the late 60s we put them into Snowberry Lake where I was the fishery manager. They were thriving there but having done all of the work we lost control of the lake to a guy called John Curry who did what we saw to be unviable deal with the owner. We had kept the membership small to maintain the atmosphere of the fishery, but its fame began to spread and of course once that happens you get people wanting to move in on your success. Nearly all of the carp in the canal went to Snowberry, but a few did escape the electro operation and in the '70s, Rod Lane had one in excess of 20 lbs from it. Unfortunately soon after that, poluution killed everything in the water. I believe that all of the Leney carp in Snowberry were also killed though obviously the two incidents were totally unrelated.
preston96
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It still looks like a Magical Place to be Fishing ............ I would rather fish a place of Beauty with plenty of Beautiful Fish in it regardless of there size and species, rather that fish a Barren Pit with loads of Huge Fish in.
A pit with loads of huge fish in it can hardly be called barren!!.......pits with lots of big fish in them are usually mature and can have their own beauty, they can be far more mysterious than a 3 acre pool too. :wh
dezza
Well-known member
That 100 acre lake I used to fish for trout and the odd big carp and bass was certainly not barren. Vast areas were a mass of Canadian Pondweed. The midge pupae were over an inch long and the grass around the lake swarmed with 3 inch long grasshoppers which the trout loved.
One of the best flies at certain times of the year when the daphnia bloomed was what we called a red setter, which was a dead ringer for a double orange blob.
I could get very enthusiastic about carp again in my old age if I could find a Redmire look alike with a few good carp - they wouldn't have to be massive, say up to 25 lbs, but the water would have to be rich in aquatic life. I would want a boilie, bolt rig and buzzer ban too.
I suppose I must dream on!
---------- Post added at 05:56 ---------- Previous post was at 05:38 ----------
But I used to fish a smallish lake about 50 miles fom my home which held carp to say 30 lbs and largemouth bass to 4 lbs.
I used to fish with floating breadcrust or a few grains of sweetcorn. It was real close up stuff and only I was allowed to fish it. You had to watch your back though as there were quite a few puff adders and black necked spitting cobras in the area.
But hell it was fun.
The lily pads were up to 3 feet in diameter.
One of the best flies at certain times of the year when the daphnia bloomed was what we called a red setter, which was a dead ringer for a double orange blob.
I could get very enthusiastic about carp again in my old age if I could find a Redmire look alike with a few good carp - they wouldn't have to be massive, say up to 25 lbs, but the water would have to be rich in aquatic life. I would want a boilie, bolt rig and buzzer ban too.
I suppose I must dream on!
---------- Post added at 05:56 ---------- Previous post was at 05:38 ----------
But I used to fish a smallish lake about 50 miles fom my home which held carp to say 30 lbs and largemouth bass to 4 lbs.
I used to fish with floating breadcrust or a few grains of sweetcorn. It was real close up stuff and only I was allowed to fish it. You had to watch your back though as there were quite a few puff adders and black necked spitting cobras in the area.
But hell it was fun.
The lily pads were up to 3 feet in diameter.
Frothey
Senior Member
why's that?
dezza
Well-known member
Well wouldn't it be nice to do a little "classical" carp fishing.
I think even PJ would appreciate that.
I think even PJ would appreciate that.
Frothey
Senior Member
can i use air dried special paste, with a heavy lead, tight lines and a backstop on the mainline?
even walker approved of bite alarms
even walker approved of bite alarms
Chris Frankish 2
Well-known member
Well wouldn't it be nice to do a little "classical" carp fishing.
I think even PJ would appreciate that.
Surely it's your choice how you fish anywhere Ron. Or do you not want to encounter anglers using boilies,bolt rigs and buzzers while you're there?
I'm very much into catching carp on my terms and will switch from a set of 3 long chucking 3.5tc rods and spodding at range to a single MKIV and Mitchell stalking the margins. It all depends how I want to do it. Saying that I've only had one of the chucking rods out of the garage once in the last 4 years lol.
Some of it comes down to where I'm fishing and as I've mentioned in another thread if I'm fishing a water of historical significance I prefer to fish it with tackle and tactics appropriate to when the water got it's name. Now, at the moment I'm fishing Mapperley but I'll admit to not using an Allcock's popular centrepin and roach rod with silk line as Buckley did (I'd have to buy them) but feel that fishing in that spirit using MKIVs and Mitchells with baits ON the hook. I also need to confess to the use of buzzers....
..Herons lol
Frothey
Senior Member
i don't get the "appropriate methods and tactics" thing. you can bet your bottom dollar that if the anglers back then had access to the methods, baits and tactics we have today they would have used them.
preston96
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