What defines a truly English carp?

[dezza]

For me it's about fishing somewhere quiet away from the circuses. I fished a few 'well known' lakes last year & hated every minute of it (apart from the day it snowed in April). It was filled with p*ssed up idiots with stereo's blasting out music & generally causing a scene. Not my kind of fishing at all. I just like the more secluded lakes where you feel like you become more in tune with both the venue & the fish, regardless of what size they may be.

Some will undoubtedly disagree but that's the joy of fishing - each to their own. Hopefully it means less people on my 'dream' lake )

That's all why i like pike fishing in winter - miles of empty banks!

Oh boy this is so very true and is an indictment on the modern carp angler. One of the worst experiences I ever had from carp anglers was being told by two twerps from a distance of at least 80 yards away that I was fishing in their swim!

And then there was the instance of the massive ****-up at a VERY well known carp fishing complex some years ago where one bloke realising that his buzzers were screaming, fell in the water as he ran - yes ran along the bank towards his rods.

Ban boilies, bolt rigs and buzzers?

Well it might at least keep off the riff raff!

Did I ever tell you of the time when I watched a small circus of carp "anglers" arrive at a very well known midlands carp venue. There were four of them in a white Transit. They were all the worse for booze and when they reached their swims then proceeded to start unloading vast quantities of canned beer, bottles of vodka and a bloody great portable Hi Fi.

And can you believe it, two of these morons had hooks through their eyebrows!!! And I'll bet they had tattoos of carp all over their bodies too!

 

[Stealph Viper]

What ever happened to, don't judge a book by it's cover.

And, just because you don't like what you see, doesn't mean the rest of the world won't view it as beautiful.

 

[Chris Frankish 2]

What ever happened to, don't judge a book by it's cover.

And, just because you don't like what you see, doesn't mean the rest of the world won't view it as beautiful.

Are you Confucius in disguise Stealp?

 

[Frothey]

We're going to have to give Ron the title "Cliche Man" instead of "Senior Member" as that's what all his anti-carp tirades always contain....

Funnily enough, despite fishing some "circus" waters I'm yet to see it - or at least any worse than the people you see/hear shouting on any match lake, or drinking on private waters. Though I guess it's seen as good form to quaff a vintage Port, rather than knock back a few stella's......

still, what any of this has to do with the lineage of our carp, I don't know.

 

[Stealph Viper]

Are you Confucius in disguise Stealp?

Confucius says -: Man with D!ck in biscuit tin is F**king Crackers

 

[dezza]

"There are so many anglers fishing for carp today, not all of them recognising or caring that carp can be frightened very easily, so it is now more usual to ignore the area immediately in front of you and cast, with specialised tackle, as far as possible. In other words you do not creep into the "enemy's" camp, but bombard it from a distance. On many public waters this long-range approach is a necessity, for the dedicated carp anglers are fishing alongside casual anglers who neither know or care that cautiousness and quietness are the essence of good fishing, at least where big fish are concerned,

It is a pity, for much of the pleasure of carp fishing is this tuning-in of a highly developed hunting instinct. To approach a lake with delicacy and quietness, to blend in with the background and, once the bait is in the water only a rod's length out, to sit there with bated breath, shielding glowing cigarette ends behind cupped hands, using every piece of cover. It is amazing what an acutely exciting feeling is engendered when you know, or anticipate , that the carp are only a few short yards away from where you sit. It is not the same when you do not have to whisper to your companion and can only dream of the carp as tiny dots sixty yards or more away."

Graham Marsden - 1980

And to sense the mystery of a summer's night, the air, heavy with the reek of new mown grasses, the overhead flap of a bat and the distant tolling of the church clock as the time approaches midnight.

And in that pregnant gloom the sudden lifting and rustling of the coil of silver foil around your line. The heart pounding sensation of line spiralling out through the rod rings, and then the arm jarring pull as the carp is hooked together with the staccato buzz of the reel drag!

Oh yes, I would love to do that sort of carp fishing again!

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

English born = English fish surely?
Just as an aside (and a bit of a brag) I'm joining a place where it is very quiet, I've never seen an angler there but the rewards are if you work hard enough. The water in question has been around since 1700 something, and pretty much undisturbed, we shall see what lurks beneath hopefully.

 

[The Monk]

my guppies bred last year here in Manchester

 

[Derek Gibson]

Will there ever be a definative answer to this particular question Ron. You should have done more pike fishing mate. No hybrids, a pike is a pike and no mistake.

 

[captain carrott]

Will there ever be a definative answer to this particular question Ron. You should have done more pike fishing mate. No hybrids, a pike is a pike and no mistake.

well if the old addage of you are what you eat is true then most big pike are american, grown fat on american trout.

 

[Stealph Viper]

my guppies bred last year here in Manchester

Does that mean that they are now Muppies

 

[Philip]

I can't go along with that Philip. I've recently read up a lot about **** Walker including his biography and the overall feeling from anyone who fished or worked with him was that he was a generous, selfless man. The amount of tackle he gave away spontaniously was unbelievable never mind the time he devoted helping people. I understand that he was keen to promote carp angling and my thinking about his reasons for the call to London Zoo align with Ron's here. The weight of 44lb was actually arrived at on an accurate set of scales at London Zoo.

I can't follow you're thinking about water retention adding weight. Normally fish weighed again after spending any time in a sack tend to lose weight, water retention would be down to some biological dysfunction.

**** never actually claimed the record either, it was pushed into place by a wave of general acceptance.

---------- Post added at 12:16 ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 ----------



Did it?

Yes , the capture of the fish fuelled a desire by many anglers to target carp as a species but lets face it the growth in numbers of carp anglers throughout the 50s,60s and 70s was hardly on a biblical scale. Sure there was growth but it was all still a very "undeground and mysterious" faction of angling. And no-one carp angling during those times adopted the habit of consuming the equivalent of a crate of Stella on a session.

Look at the 80s however, the outing of the hair at the beginning of the decade and the growth of the carp magazines and The Carp Society and it's national and regional meetings.

The greatest leveller ever to emerge onto the carp scene and an overload of not just information but glorification of carp fishing. I believe the 80s also saw the import of large foreign carp in numbers.

What's really the cause for the production of the "Carp Industry".

Hi Chris,

Before I go on I just want to say that I don’t want this to appear as a personal attack by me on Walker, that would not be fair plus the bloke is not here to defend himself. For the record I think he did a huge amount for angling and he would be in my top 10 anglers of all time…top man ! Also you will note that i did not say he was selfish, I said what he did was selfish as by putting it in a zoo no one ever got the chance to fish for it again.

However with regards to the weight of the Carp I think you need to do some more reading. Obviously I was not there but I have read and heard enough to convince me that the fish was taken in and out of a sack, prob the old style Hessian sacks numerous times and it lost a lot of slime. During its transport to the Zoo it absorbed a lot of water and became sick, its weight was also boosted due to this. Walker himself said it was a very sick fish and described it as looking like “a boiled owl”. The fish did not weigh 44 pounds when it was caught. Even Walker never claimed 44 pounds for it and only ever described it as “a forty pounder”. And if you still don’t believe me take a closer looks at the posts…even the Walker font of all knowledge Ron has not challenged this point as he knows as well, and probably a lot better than me, that it did not weigh 44 pounds on capture.

As for the comment about it starting the specimen circus…well of course you are right, there are many things that helped to start it but I think Walker prob did more than anyone to start people off on the big fish by design route and that Carp was the iconic fish that Walker caught and helped to catapult him into our angling history forever.

….Mind you having said that, truth be told I only included the comment to wind Ron up ! …in a good natured way of course…

 

[Stealph Viper]

So **** Walker, caught a 40lb Carp, and had it put in to a Zoo.

What does any of this have to do with what constitutes a truly English carp?

I wonder what they would say if Lee Jackson or Terry Hearn or another distinguished high profile Carp Angler caught a 60lb Carp and stuck it in a Zoo ............... There would be Bloody Hell Up.
God, you would get pelted with stones just for not putting it on an unhooking mat.

For me a truly english carp is one that would be having an underwater picnic, whilst wearing a straw hat and a boating blazer and tally hooing all the Anglers on the bank side trying to barbarically catch them with crude fishing weapons, like 3.5lb Carp rods and Bolt Rigs and unsporting like bait boats.

 

[dezza]

I have heard all sorts of stories regarding the capture of Walker's carp. The most truthful came from the mouth of **** himself.

He told me that when Pete Thomas landed the fish, they weighed it in the landing net on a set of Salter dial scales which went up to 32 lbs. It took the dail way beyond the 32lb mark. Therefore they were able to confirm that here was a new record; the previous one being a fish of 31 1/4lbs taken by Bob Richards. Walker sat smoking and thinking and came to the conclusion that the fish must not be killed. Yet he wanted to prove to the doubting Thomases of a couple of academics he had crossed pens with that carp of over 40lbs did exist in English waters. And the academics would only believe the fish existed if they could not only see the fish, but touch and feel it too.

That's why the fish went to London Zoo.

At about 8-30 am he was able to borrow another spring balance from a local farmer.

By putting the two balances together and weighing the fish in parallel as is were, the two readings when added together gave a weight of about 41 lbs.

It was only at a later stage that the carp was weighed on an certified scale that an accurate weight of 44lbs was confirmed. Walker thought that someone had made a mistake as he didn't think the fish could have weighed much more than 40 lbs. The spring balances he used were reasonably accurate.

But 44lbs was finally accepted and the angling world was truly amazed.

---------- Post added at 13:44 ---------- Previous post was at 13:36 ----------

By the way, the story that Walker had it taken to the zoo because he didn't want anyone else to catch it is utter *******s!

He had seen carp much bigger than Clarissa in Redmire and was well aware that they would eventually be caught, and probably not by himself.

 

[r1paul]

We're going to have to give Ron the title "Cliche Man" instead of "Senior Member" as that's what all his anti-carp tirades always contain....

Funnily enough, despite fishing some "circus" waters I'm yet to see it - or at least any worse than the people you see/hear shouting on any match lake, or drinking on private waters. Though I guess it's seen as good form to quaff a vintage Port, rather than knock back a few stella's......

still, what any of this has to do with the lineage of our carp, I don't know.

I must say that in about 40 years of fishing and a lot of those years for carp , I have only seen people abusing drink a handful of times , I have seen loads of fishermen having a social with mates , enjoying their selves and in the main they are carpers , and why ? because the carp boys tend to do long sessions hours plus , more hours per session that any other branch of the sport .
Most of the FM fish-ins that I have been to , always have a bit of a social side to them on the bank but nobody is out of order .

Regarding buzzers , they are a tool which can be used badly in the wrong hands , doing a long session I feel that there is a need to have them on in the daytime , you may need to cook ,make rigs up ect and you can`t watch your rods at the same time but the buzzers should be kept as low as possible , no need for that high tone , the constant blip blip blip when someone is trying to adjust their setup after casting is a pain in the Ase ,turn them off , then back on when sorted .
The other thing is the guy on the far bank just after dark , headlight flashing about , on off , for a good 1/2 hour , sort your gear out in the light , know where it all is , or if you don`t like the dark , don`t night fish .

 

[Stealph Viper]

Imagine being afraid of the Dark, every time you shut your eyes to go to sleep you would wake up screaming.

 

[r1paul]

Imagine being afraid of the Dark, every time you shut your eyes to go to sleep you would wake up screaming.

Silly Sod .:wh

 

[Philip]

Quote..."By the way, the story that Walker had it taken to the zoo because he didn't want anyone else to catch it is utter ****!"

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So basically it seems even Walker considered it weighed less than 44 pounds on capture..

And please stop misquoting me...I did not say he took it to the zoo to stop anyone else catching it...his motives were as you said..he did it to prove he had caught a 40 pounder and stick it to a couple of bio fish geeks who doubted him.

I said by putting it in the zoo no one else got the chance to fish for it. That is fact....

 

[dezza]

Sorry Philip I am not quoting you specifically. I have heard from others that Walker did not want his record fish recaught; which is not true of course.

In those days the supposed existance of huge carp in England was the subject of many stories. It was actually BB who enthused **** regarding the possible existance of monsters. **** did a lot of fishing at Bearton Pond in Hitchin and at another very private water close by called Temple Pool, which I believe was subsequently drained. He caught lots of carp up to 16 lbs, but in truth he re-caught lots of carp. So did Pete Thomas, his regular angling partner.

About 1946, **** wrote to BB who had just had his book: "Fisherman's Bedside Book" published. Walker was inspired by the chapters on carp fishing and invited BB to spend time with him in Hitchin where BB caught his biggest ever carp, a fish of 10lbs.

However it was through contact with Don Leney of the Surrey Trout Farm that Walker learned all about the many waters that Leney had stocked. And shortly after, Bob Richards broke the record with a 31 pound fish that Walker stuffed.

I am looking now, as I type, at a picture of Walker preparing to make the first incision into Richards 31lb carp. He has a cigarette in his mouth, which I reckon was there to disguise the stench, which must have been horrific.

But it was through Bob Richards that Walker was able to get permission for himself and a few other members of the Carp Catcher's Club to fish at Redmire.

 

[The Monk]

Imagine being afraid of the Dark, every time you shut your eyes to go to sleep you would wake up screaming.

I usually wake up screaming after I open my eyes after seeing what I dragged in the night before