What makes a good Centrepin

[sam vimes]

Imo there is no "black art" involved in fishing with a centrepin as some users would have others believe other than slight adjustments to the tackle that might be needed, most of which are no different to adjustments that are made when fishing a still water.

Wait until you see someone that's really good at trotting (and casting) with a pin before you decide on that. Not for one moment am I suggesting that there aren't similar differences between a really good fixed spool trotter and a relative novice, but a master of the pin compared to someone that's merely competent is a sight to behold. I currently aspire to somewhere just above mere competence. Whether I'll ever get to be as good as the best I've seen is rather doubtful. Stillwater fishing with a pin may well be enjoyable for many, but using a pin on a stillwater is largely a matter of enjoyment. There are no significant benefits in using a pin on stillwater and you'll never really be able to appreciate the differences between pins unless you trot with them.

 

[thecrow]

Wait until you see someone that's really good at trotting (and casting) with a pin before you decide on that.

I watched Keith Speer a few times he was pretty good at it as usual someone that is very good at doing something makes it look very easy and I do believe that there are some things within angling that are just natural to some anglers and cannot be learnt to the same standard.

 

[Philip]

but a master of the pin compared to someone that's merely competent is a sight to behold.

sorry but thats a bottom disipearing alert if ever I saw one

There are no significant benefits in using a pin on stillwater and you'll never really be able to appreciate the differences between pins unless you trot with them.

Mind you I do agree with that bit at least to the extent that i think you need to use them in flowing water to really get the best out of them

 

[sam vimes]

sorry but thats a bottom disipearing alert if ever I saw one

Sorry you think that way, but I like seeing those that are really good at floatfishing on flowing water. Be it with a pin, closed face or normal fixed spool, I can only marvel at those that are really good at it. The sad part is that they are getting thinner on the ground year on year.

 

[Philip]

[FONT=&quot]Thing is this thread has got me thinking. I don’t want to start Pin wars 8 but it does seem to me that there is a rather large slice of rose tinted spectacle wearing happening on the part of the purists when it comes to the supposed advantages of true bush pins compared to bearing pins. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Don’t get me wrong, I do appreciate the points that have been made about the difference between the two which I have no reason to doubt and which when boiled down basically amounts to true pins not running quite as smoothly as a bearing pins & the additional friction they impart helps with line flow and tackle control. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Ok I am probably generalizing but that’s the basic gist of it is it not ? [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The rose tinted spectacle part is that when you think about it, the additional friction a true pin imparts is actually due a flaw in the design, yet its being offered by the Pin Purists as an “advantage” ! [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Think about it. When you look at it from a outside point of view the basic concept of a center pin is a drum with line on it that revolves to let line off. So surely at its most basic fundamental level you would want that drum to revolve as freely as it possibly can. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Once we have achieved that ultimate free running –THEN- we can start to add things such as additional friction, micro drags and so on to slow it down IF WE WISH.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If however your drum already impacts friction due to a fundamental design flaw then you really have no choice in the matter…you can add additional friction but you won’t be able to remove the friction already there. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Or to put it in simpler terms :- [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]A Bearing pin could be made to do everything a true pin can do, however a true pin can never do everything a bearing pin can do because it simply can’t turn as freely. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Consider it like that and now ask yourself - Which is actually “better” ? [/FONT]

 

[binka]

I've got to admit that my preference for a 'true' 'pin has nothing to do with friction, it's more a personal feeling that bearing 'pins are an unnecessary complication and an affront to an otherwise simple design and it's partly that simplicity which sees me using one almost without exception on both rivers and stillwaters these days (despite the fact I used a fixed spool reel for the first time in months over the weekend).

Don't get me wrong...

I've whizzed a few bearing 'pins around and they feel extremely nice and I'm not knocking them or those who prefer them but I haven't found any limitations yet with my bush 'pins, I just really like the simpler idea of it all.

 

[tigger]

[FONT=&quot]Thing is this thread has got me thinking. I don’t want to start Pin wars 8 but it does seem to me that there is a rather large slice of rose tinted spectacle wearing happening on the part of the purists when it comes to the supposed advantages of true bush pins compared to bearing pins. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Don’t get me wrong, I do appreciate the points that have been made about the difference between the two which I have no reason to doubt and which when boiled down basically amounts to true pins not running quite as smoothly as a bearing pins & the additional friction they impart helps with line flow and tackle control. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Ok I am probably generalizing but that’s the basic gist of it is it not ? [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The rose tinted spectacle part is that when you think about it, the additional friction a true pin imparts is actually due a flaw in the design, yet its being offered by the Pin Purists as an “advantage” ! [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Think about it. When you look at it from a outside point of view the basic concept of a center pin is a drum with line on it that revolves to let line off. So surely at its most basic fundamental level you would want that drum to revolve as freely as it possibly can. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Once we have achieved that ultimate free running –THEN- we can start to add things such as additional friction, micro drags and so on to slow it down IF WE WISH.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If however your drum already impacts friction due to a fundamental design flaw then you really have no choice in the matter…you can add additional friction but you won’t be able to remove the friction already there. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Or to put it in simpler terms :- [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]A Bearing pin could be made to do everything a true pin can do, however a true pin can never do everything a bearing pin can do because it simply can’t turn as freely. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Consider it like that and now ask yourself - Which is actually “better” ? [/FONT]

You've made up things in your head that are completely the opposite of reality, the true pin has an easier start up and is smoother than a ball race reel etc etc etc mg:.
I used a ball race reel today and I regretted not taking a bush reel!

Philip....your a non believer and refuse to take on board what people have tried to say so there's no point in trying to explain the differences between the two types of reel anymore, well not by me anyhow .

 

[thecrow]

when you think about it, the additional friction a true pin imparts is actually due a flaw in the design, yet its being offered by the Pin Purists as an “advantage” !

That was one of the contradictions I meant earlier in the thread, couldn't the same friction be imparted to a bearing pin by the use of heavier oil?

 

[thecrow]

What do the most expensive pins cost? are they pins or bearings?

 

[sam vimes]

What do the most expensive pins cost? are they pins or bearings?

On the primary market, the more expensive end of the scale is a fair split between true pins and bearing reels. When it comes to the secondary market, true pins are generally far more expensive. However, a fair bit of that is due to age and/or scarcity. A lot of the more expensive modern true pins are made in pretty small quantities.

 

[Philip]

You've made up things in your head that are completely the opposite of reality, the true pin has an easier start up and is smoother than a ball race reel etc etc etc mg:.
I used a ball race reel today and I regretted not taking a bush reel!

Philip....your a non believer and refuse to take on board what people have tried to say so there's no point in trying to explain the differences between the two types of reel anymore, well not by me anyhow .

Absolutely not true Ian ...I have taken everything on board that you and others have said.

The reality is one is a spindle that turns, while the other is a ball race that turns and unless someone can explain how a turning spindle does something that a turning ball race cannot also be made to do then I am afraid I will always be a non-believer.

 

[tigger]

Absolutely not true Ian ...I have taken everything on board that you and others have said.

The reality is one is a spindle that turns, while the other is a ball race that turns and unless someone can explain how a turning spindle does something that a turning ball race cannot also be made to do then I am afraid I will always be a non-believer.

Philip...you've worn me out bud, someone else will have to explain the differences .

 

[sam vimes]

Absolutely not true Ian ...I have taken everything on board that you and others have said.

The reality is one is a spindle that turns, while the other is a ball race that turns and unless someone can explain how a turning spindle does something that a turning ball race cannot also be made to do then I am afraid I will always be a non-believer.

The bottom line is that you'll have to try suitable reels for a decent period of time. No amount of fishing a stillwater with a pin, and no amount of explanations on a messageboard will make a h'apporth of difference. There's good reason why some folks simply refuse to be drawn into this. It's an absolute nightmare to try to explain and it seems that quite a few people, with little or no experience worth mentioning, simply refuse to countenance that there can possibly be any difference. I know that I'd have been just the same at one point. Now, from the other side of the fence, I can understand the frustrations.

 

[Philip]

Philip...you've worn me out bud, someone else will have to explain the differences .

Ah come on you cant give up that easily !!! ….I just got a mug of coco & was settled in for an all nighter

 

[Philip]

it seems that quite a few people, with little or no experience worth mentioning, simply refuse to countenance that there can possibly be any difference

Lets be clear - that’s not me.

I totally dig the difference. I get it. Bush reels are better to fish with. Really I do get that.

The point however is that there is no reason I can see why a bearing reel could not be made to do what a bush reel does. They just don’t build the flaw (for want of a better word) into bearing reels for that to happen.

 

[sam vimes]

The point however is that there is no reason I can see why a bearing reel could not be made to do what a bush reel does. They just don’t build the flaw (for want of a better word) into bearing reels for that to happen.

As far as I'm concerned, bearing reels are essentially a way to make a reel cheaper and/or easier to make, especially when it's a winch type reel. They also pander to the obsession that many people have with spin times. I'd put good money on quite a few buyers of true pins being rather disappointed with their purchases when they don't spin for X minutes fresh out of the box. You might find a bearing reel that's not brilliantly put together. You may find one that doesn't spin forever. However, it's rare to find a bearing reel that will actually improve as it runs in.

I tend to look at things from the other end to you. True pins came first and it's the bearing reels that are flawed, at least from a trotters perspective.

 

[Philip]

As far as I'm concerned, bearing reels are essentially a way to make a reel cheaper and/or easier to make, especially when it's a winch type reel. They also pander to the obsession that many people have with spin times. I'd put good money on quite a few buyers of true pins being rather disappointed with their purchases when they don't spin for X minutes fresh out of the box. You might find a bearing reel that's not brilliantly put together. You may find one that doesn't spin forever. However, it's rare to find a bearing reel that will actually improve as it runs in.

I tend to look at things from the other end to you. True pins came first and it's the bearing reels that are flawed, at least from a trotters perspective.

Well yes in a way your right ...you could say bearing reels are flawed from an anglers perspective.

However would you not also agree that they could recitify that "flaw" if they wanted ?

 

[sam vimes]

However would you not also agree that they could recitify that "flaw" if they wanted ?

Possibly. However, I'm not convinced that the addition of a micro-drag is the answer. For whatever reason, bearing reels with micro-drags that I've used still don't feel and respond in quite the same as a well running true pin.

 

[tigger]

One thing I forgot to mention....my 1915 allcocks 12 spoke aerial (which is a bush and pin reel)will spin silently for over 5 min's and starts up with the merest puff of wind :w.

 

[Philip]

One thing I forgot to mention....my 1915 allcocks 12 spoke aerial (which is a bush and pin reel)will spin silently for over 5 min's and starts up with the merest puff of wind :w.

My Marco Contessi will spin for over 5mins in a wind too.... although its usually the heavy sort I get after a curry & a few pints..