Centrepins

[tigger]

I have bought Sensor in 6lb bs and I have some 8lb line on a bulk spool. Do I need some lighter line for my pin say 4lb and when would I use this in preference?

I guess small narrow and shallow rivers and streams might be better suited to lighter lines and raging torrents ( not for me) , particularly if full of snags to stronger line! I can see the furrowed brows now at my ignorance

Mike, you can get sensor in 4lb bulk spools and even down to 3lb B/S although I don't think the 3lb is in bulk spools...don't quote me but I think it's in 300mtr spools.
I nearly always use 6lb and if I want a less visible line near my hook I add a length of Silstar matchman or prestons in whatever B/S I think necessary.

Daiwa NEW Sensor Bulk Spool Monofil Fishing Line *All Breaking Strains* | eBay

 

[mikench]

That makes perfect sense and I will do that when the need arises. Thanks Ian!

 

[associatedmatt]

Been thinking on digging deep and buying a centre pin for trotting but don't fancy a cheapie from China


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[robtherake]

Been thinking on digging deep and buying a centre pin for trotting but don't fancy a cheapie from China


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Have a look at the TFG Classic - a well-engineered reel for very little cash and a step above the Ikonix/Cortesi reels in both looks and performance. It's available with or without line guard.

TF Gear Classic Centre Pin Reel

 

[associatedmatt]

What's the next stage up from that price range or is there no need just for trotting ?


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[sam vimes]

What's the next stage up from that price range or is there no need just for trotting ?

Next stop, Okumas or Greys Bewick. Trotting is where you are likely to notice the differences in pins the most. However, price is not necessarily an indication of suitability for any given purpose. Unless you go second hand, don't expect British made for much less than £250.

I rather like my expensive pins. However, I'd have to concede that the expensive bearing pins offer little extra functionality over the Okumas. They do look rather better though. The downside of the Okumas is that they don't make them big enough/with a shallow enough arbour for my liking.

 

[binka]

I had a long, hard think about the Greys Bewick before buying the Conquests and it's odds on if I could have handled one I may well have bought it, I think they look a nice reel and the later, non-UK made reels seem to get good reviews.

 

[associatedmatt]

Never used a pin before but I thought I would get one for trotting so will need to learn how to cast one and playing with one


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[binka]

Never used a pin before but I thought I would get one for trotting so will need to learn how to cast one and playing with one

Simplicity in themselves imo, completely intuitive.

I've only recently returned to one in the last twelve months or so and often use mine purely because I enjoy using it even when a fixed spool would really be the better option such as on stillwaters, I'm comfortable up to around three and a half rod lengths out with a 13' rod without the need to Wallis cast.

I rarely float fish beyond that range anyway and my close season work will be much lighter this year as many of my fixed spools, which were stripped, cleaned, greased and oiled before re-spooling last close season are still hanging on their rack unused.

I should really have a clear out, but you know how it is

 

[seth49]

Took my match ariel out yesterday, really liked it, slightest current had it turning, and it fed the line out nicely, think is my favourite trotting reel at the moment.

It had a slight wobble, when I bought it, so I fixed that by slowly and evenly tightening the spokes, spins true now,also someone had fitted a new grub screw. The one which adjusts the end float on the spool, but it just had a flat end for the pin to turn against.

So I got the dremal out and ground the end to a dome shape, so there was less contact on the pin, some gentle polishing and oiling, and it spins like a top.
Would recommend one of these to anyone wanting a good English made centrepin.

 

[103841]

Never used a pin before but I thought I would get one for trotting so will need to learn how to cast one and playing with one


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I've recently started learning the art of trotting and bought a Greys Bewick. It's a very satisfying way to fish. Trust me if I can do it you'll be able to as well, like Steve says it's intuitive, a bit like riding a bike.

My first decent fish caught on a pin.

 

[nhs service]

Well played sir. A fine bronzy looking chub. And nice to see the Bewick.
Careful though it's addictive. Whilst all around are bagging up on the feeder, there's me having a trundle and happily blanking.
We used to rotate, the Severn one week, a local canal the next, then a gravel pit, park lake, then the Severn again.
The river trips were always special, and gave me an opportunity to use the pin, sometimes I should have been using another tactic but I enjoyed it.
Back fishing after a long time away. I'm determined this time to use the pin when its the best method. Won't last.
All the best.

 

[thecrow]

Can someone please explain why some centrepins are so expensive? I see stuff for sale second hand for £450 plus, surely there comes a time when the engineering cannot get any better?

 

[barbelboi]

Can someone please explain why some centrepins are so expensive? I see stuff for sale second hand for £450 plus, surely there comes a time when the engineering cannot get any better?

Possibly you sometimes you get what you pay for Graham - Can't speak for the £400 + reels but my Youngs pins are many years old and still run as new after a heck of a lot of use and are a real(no pun intended) pleasure to use....

 

[Ray Daywalker Clarke]

Can someone please explain why some centrepins are so expensive? I see stuff for sale second hand for £450 plus, surely there comes a time when the engineering cannot get any better?

I do wonder that myself sometimes, but it's not just some of the old Pins, some of the new ones cost just as much, and imho are no better than some of the cheaper old pins. You don't have to break the bank to get a very good second hand pin. There are those who will pay well over the odd's for a pin, because of the make and model, others pay the money for them as part of a collection.
I can never make out why you would want to spend good money on something, for it to sit in a case and never use it. Each to their own.

With out a doubt, one of the best pins I ever had was a Speedia wide drum, smooth as silk. At sometime or other, like others on FM, i have had numerous different pins, yet I still come back to my Ariels, Okuma and a Leeds Pin that gets used now and then for floater fishing and some Barbel.

There is also the other end of the market, new cheap Pins, that fall apart, and new cheap pins that a great value for money.

Without looking it up, I think a Pin went for something like £7,000, the most paid for a reel in auction a couple of years ago. It was said it was the last of it's kind, I wonder how they know that ??

 

[thecrow]

Possibly you sometimes you get what you pay for Graham - Can't speak for the £400 + reels but my Youngs pins are many years old and still run as new after a heck of a lot of use and are a real(no pun intended) pleasure to use....

I can understand things from yesteryear that were quite expensive when new lasting longer than the cheaper options from those days, what was being paid for then was the machining skills of whoever made them but and its a pretty big but for me ....

Most if not all factory produced pins will have been machined using CNC machines which are depending on the quality of the CNC able to reproduce extremely fine tolerances time after time, certainly finer tolerances than a human can keep reproducing imo this could mean that tolerances on some of the cheaper mass produced pins such as the ones in the £50 to £80 range are closer than some of the more expensive ones.

Don't get me wrong if an angler has the cash to pay for an expensive pin and its what they want to own/use I see nothing wrong with it what I don't understand is how the huge price of something that will have variable quality unit to unit can be charged.

 

[tigger]

this could mean that tolerances on some of the cheaper mass produced pins such as the ones in the £50 to £80 range are closer than some of the more expensive ones.

No, that's not the case, all the cheap reels that i've seen have crappy tolerances, the reels that I have with the best tolerances are expensive ones.

 

[sam vimes]

Can someone please explain why some centrepins are so expensive? I see stuff for sale second hand for £450 plus, surely there comes a time when the engineering cannot get any better?

Much depends on the expensive pin in question. For a start, if it's British made you can add at least £150 to the price of a similar design made in the Far East. However, the precise country of origin can also show a price differential. Chinese made reels are invariably cheaper than those made in Taiwan or Korea. It's a question of standards of living and workers pay in the country concerned.

Then you can throw complexity and scale of manufacturing into the mix. There are UK made bearing pins that cost up to £600 or so. On the face of it, they don't function that differently to an Okuma. However, they aren't identikit reels with different colour schemes and facias like the Okumas. They also are not produced in large quantities. The machining on some of the top price UK bearing pins is far more complicated than any other CNC machined reels I've encountered. The fit, finish and quality of materials is also a cut above, and so it should be for the sums in question.

Then there's a question of exclusivity alongside supply and demand. With a handmade UK reel such as a Chris Lythe, it's a long wait to get hold of a new one or you can compete to pay through the nose for a second hand one. It may or may not have been used, but you are likely to have to pay more than you would for a brand spanker. It comes down to whether you can wait three years for an order to be fulfilled. As Chris Lythe is no longer taking orders, that situation isn't likely to get any better and prices are likely to go up.

The bottom line is that the top price reels may not function any better than the budget stuff, but they tend not to be as variable in quality. However, my experience is that when you pay more the quality is higher. As with anything, you can end up paying more for certain brands or makers. There's little intrinsic value difference between many reels with vastly different price tags. The rule of diminishing returns is highly applicable. As ever, a £600 reel is not twice the reel of a £300 one. Nor is the £300 reel twice the reel a £150 one is. The end result is that you pay your money and take your choice.

Resale values are also a factor to those that consider such things. Generally speaking, the cheaper the reel the greater the percentage depreciation. When it comes to the very top end of the market, there's a chance that owners may actually make money on their investment.

 

[thecrow]

No, that's not the case, all the cheap reels that i've seen have crappy tolerances, the reels that I have with the best tolerances are expensive ones.

They may have been on ones you have handled ian, I would be interested to know what the tolerances were because a good cnc machine is capable of reproducing tolerances of 0.00004" to 0.004" or even if required one millionth of an inch, its almost impossible for a human to reproduce those tolerances, now I am not saying that cheaper pins are produced to that tolerance but they are produced to more consistant close tolerances than can be achieved by a human.

---------- Post added at 21:25 ---------- Previous post was at 21:22 ----------

Then there's a question of exclusivity alongside supply and demand. With a handmade UK reel such as a Chris Lythe, it's a long wait to get hold of a new one or you can compete to pay through the nose for a second hand one. It may or may not have been used, but you are likely to have to pay more than you would for a brand spanker. It comes down to whether you can wait three years for an order to be fulfilled. As Chris Lythe is no longer taking orders, that situation isn't likely to get any better and prices are likely to go up.

Now that I can understand if its something an angler can afford and wants one of those.

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:25 ----------

The bottom line is that the top price reels may not function any better than the budget stuff, but they tend not to be as variable in quality. However, my experience is that when you pay more the quality is higher. As with anything, you can end up paying more for certain brands or makers. There's little intrinsic value difference between many reels with vastly different price tags. The rule of diminishing returns is highly applicable. As ever, a £600 reel is not twice the reel of a £300 one. Nor is the £300 reel twice the reel a £150 one is. The end result is that you pay your money and take your choice.

Answers the question for me.

 

[sam vimes]

Answers the question for me.

It's no different from absolutely any other consumer item.
However, the reality is that I'd not take £250 plus an Okuma Sheffield in exchange for my Kingpin Zeppelin. Nor would I take £150 and an Okuma Sheffield for my Hardy Conquest. Can I do everything with my Okuma that I can with Kingpin and Hardy, pretty much. I'd still rather have and use the more expensive reels over the Okuma, even with the price hikes. Not everything comes down to brass tacks. If it did, we'd all be driving the same budget cars, shopping at the same budget supermarkets etc, etc. You probably won't see the differences in pins unless you get a posher one in hand. You may well not find any significant differences in engineering tolerances if you do. You may not even notice performance differences, if they are even there. It's taken me a lot of time using different pins to appreciate differences that I'd not have even noticed when I first started using them.