Gaymire: Are the Monsters Still There?

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eddiebenham

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I have contacted Robin Monday for his comments: with any luck he'll man-up and come clean.
Cliff.............You're 'pissing into the wind' I'm afraid. It would be nice but it's not going to happen, too much to lose.
I'm sure that he has been told to remain silent.
If only we had a couple of Martins photos, NO Mountains, NO Power Stations, it would show the World that the Carp Society made an almighty cock up when they discredited Martins captures.
Would need to buy plenty of eggs.
 

Cliff Hatton

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What he said, it’s only fishing ffs.


Had you tried being as philosophical with the Carp Society back then, you'd have been told how vitally important it was to retain accurate records of the UK's most notable carp; this was, after all, their raison detre. Martin had no desire to be on any official list but he did expect to be believed - that's all. What he didn't expect was insults and a malicious fairy story.
 

Philip

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Hi Phillip....................The photos no longer exist and if they did then the sign would not reveal anything.
I saw a lot of the untouched photos (maybe all of them) and the one that showed the sign was with Martin crouching in the foreground with the huge English Common. Behind him at the top of the bank was the fence with the sign on it.
The sign appeared to be on the other side of the fence and facing the water so anything on the sign would be readable when on the other side facing the water. At a guess I would say it probably only said 'Danger - Deep Water'. One thing I can assure you is that there were NO Mountains and NO Power Stations in any of the many untouched photos I saw. You can ask any one of the dozen or so who saw the photos and they will tell you that it looked just like an English Lake.
Anyone that is except Robin Monday................Strange that don't you think ?
Hi Eddie,

If there was nothing that would give away the location Martin would not need to have cropped the photos would he.

How do you know the photos don't exist & more importantly Is Yvonne aware this is being resurrected -again- ? .

..Cliff skipped over that point I note.
 
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Being an addicted carp angler when this catch was announced via the angling press, I remember well the mixed feelings I had at the time. And still do. On one hand the remarkably simple but equally awesome achievement of landing that immaculate common, then, the sense of being cheated should the fish have been caught over the pond.
Indeed, nothing has changed for me. A guy who looks like he had a game of tennis an hour before he went fishing, pictured with a colossal common with no background or scene. The ‘evidence’ still suggests something is not right.
It was too long ago now for it to really matter to anyone and I can guarantee that no Carp Society member will be admitting to any conjecture either. Why should they when there is no evidence?
Why doesn’t the place get named? It’s very unlikely that those carp Martin caught (should they be ‘English’), be alive today.
 
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Cliff Hatton

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Julian: you need to be aware of what's gone on and what's been revealed. The 'tennis gear' would look a bit odd wherever he was, wouldn't it? But it did a good job of disguising his identity as a fisherman!
The water IS named. It's 'Gaymire'. Do have a good read here on FM and you'll find reams of evidence that Gay's huge haul of big carp was not caught abroad.
 
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eddiebenham

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If there was nothing that would give away the location Martin would not need to have cropped the photos would he.
Hi Phillip.......................What I actually said was that if the photos still existed then the sign would not reveal anything. The untouched photos would have. Martin felt that by revealing all that was shown in the photos would result in someone identifying the place and that's why he chose to blank out the background.
According to Selman there were Mountains in the background later he changed that to a Power Station as it wasn't B.C after all but Ontario.
Having seen the photos myself I feel sure that I would have recognised it had I come across it. I can now tell you that Cliff and I have identified most of the features published by Martin and those that I knew about that were not published. I know the name of the lake, where it is, and I've been there, and it's not in Canada, it's in England.
You have to bear in mind that there were some fanatical carp anglers about, some of whom followed Martin by car to see where he was going. He told me he had to take detours and check to see if he was being followed. He received death threats and had to change his phone number to ex- directory.
I spoke to Yvonne when Cliff and I first started all this after someone 'suggested' I should. I asked her if she had any of the photos and was told that she did not. She also told me that she was not aware of all the accusations and fabricated stories as Martin had shielded her from most of it.
She has never spoken publicly about this matter and does not intend to do so.
 

Neil Maidment

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........how vitally important it was to retain accurate records of the UK's most notable carp; this was, after all, their raison detre....
Sounds a reasonable continuing project to me and I can understand their reticence to accept what is a volume of comment, hearsay and belief. At best that amounts to circumstantial evidence from a united coordinated point of view.

However, maybe you and the group of friends who are vehemently defending Martin should consider formally presenting The Carp Society with your understanding of the events supported by individual legally notarised statements.

Maybe The Carp Society would, or would not, respond, but the veracity of your position would be considerably enhanced with that type of supporting evidence.

Or you could continue to thrash one side of the story on this forum for evermore!
 

nottskev

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Crying out to be made into a film. Whether as a Coen brothers type neo-noir, or along the lines of The Detectorists, I'm not sure.
 

Cliff Hatton

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Sounds a reasonable continuing project to me and I can understand their reticence to accept what is a volume of comment, hearsay and belief. At best that amounts to circumstantial evidence from a united coordinated point of view.

However, maybe you and the group of friends who are vehemently defending Martin should consider formally presenting The Carp Society with your understanding of the events supported by individual legally notarised statements.

Maybe The Carp Society would, or would not, respond, but the veracity of your position would be considerably enhanced with that type of supporting evidence.

Or you could continue to thrash one side of the story on this forum for evermore!

That's a reasonable comment, I think, Neil, but no more than that. Providing proof of the fishs' origins is actually impossible because even if I were to show photographs of Gaymire taken just last week (when I was fishing it) it would prove nothing.

HOWEVER! A 6 yr old 'special needs' kid could discern the liar by looking at that liar's 25 year "one million per cent" contention that the carp came from British Colombia THEN at that liar's "one million per cent" contention that it came from a power-station outlet 2,000 miles from British Colombia!

If we concentrate on establishing who the liar is, the truth will naturally be revealed.

I could, if I felt like it right now, list dozens of points that clearly illustrate the dishonesty and the scurrilousness of Selman and Monday; suffice to say, for now, that FM 'archives' is brimming with evidence NOT proving Martin's fish were caught in England but proving who the liars are - and they are liars. I would not use such a term if I could see how there might have been a genuine misunderstanding, but with so many blatant fantasies and inventions of Selman's mind to draw upon there is only one word to describe him.

Hopefully, I shall be pursuing this matter through another channel with the intention of getting a posthumous apology from the Carp Society and an amendment to their records.
 

Philip

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Providing proof of the fishs' origins is actually impossible
Nope. Wrong. Not true.

I spoke to Yvonne when Cliff and I first started all this
She also told me that she was not aware of all the accusations and fabricated stories as Martin had shielded her from most of it.
So you spoke to her years ago and she has little inkling of the depth of bad feeling or how many times this has been dredged up over a 25 year period.

I asked her if she had any of the photos and was told that she did not.
A typical reply when asked for Personal photos your husband clearly didn’t want people to see.

She has never spoken publicly about this matter and does not intend to do so.
Human beings have a habit of changing their minds, especially I would imagine if they discovered how many times their late husband’s name has been dragged through the mud over a 25 year period and so publicly.

My guess is that should she become aware she may be so pig sick of hearing about it that she gets the cardboard box from the upstairs cupboard with the photos in it, makes them public and ends this once and for all.

Maybe someone should tell her.
 
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Nobby C (ACA)

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On the other hand, she might not give a monkeys toss.
I've read Martins letters to Ritchie, why would he keep up a lie?
I don't have Ritchie replies though I have asked his opinion.
I could try to copy them I guess.
 

bennygesserit

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once again
the only discord in this forum is coming from the editor

pack it in
 

Nobby C (ACA)

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Good to see you back, Nobby!
That's a rather cryptic message...feel free to expand, Nobby!
I'll try to get copies done this weekend, Ritchie wants the originals back, understandably. There's nothing groundbreaking in there but it will provide insight into the authors mind.
 

eddiebenham

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Nope. Wrong. Not true.





So you spoke to her years ago and she has little inkling of the depth of bad feeling or how many times this has been dredged up over a 25 year period.



A typical reply when asked for Personal photos your husband clearly didn’t want people to see.



Human beings have a habit of changing their minds, especially I would imagine if they discovered how many times their late husband’s name has been dragged through the mud over a 25 year period and so publicly.

My guess is that should she become aware she may be so pig sick of hearing about it that she gets the cardboard box from the upstairs cupboard with the photos in it, makes them public and ends this once and for all.

Maybe someone should tell her.
Hi Phillip

As I said Yvonne told me there are no photos anymore and I choose to believe her whatever others may think.
Also there is no upstairs cupboard as she lives in a Bungalow.
Martin showed me a lot of photos and several people saw one or more.
ALL but Robin Monday agreed on what they saw in the photos. NO Mountains, NO Mounties, NO Power Station.
Robin gave at least two different versions and Selman two that were not the same as Robin. So that's at least four versions between them, and none of them tie in with what anyone else who saw them said. Unbelievable really.
Robin Monday has stated that he has PROOF that the fish were caught in Canada.
Really !
Let's see your PROOF then Robin.
Bet we don't because he doesn't have any PROOF at all.
 

Philip

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Hi Eddie, the point being the unedited photos may still exist and could provide proof of where the fish was caught. Failing that Yvonne as the last person left who knows the truth may decide to just tell everyone.

I think Yvonne should be made aware of the depth of bad feeling and number of times this has been churned up and her late husbands name dragged through the mud so publicly over the last 25 years so she can make up her own mind. ...for example a good start could be to print off the articles and all the threads that have occurred on FM and show her.

Just think finally Cliff and you could finally have some real proof in your endless quest.
 
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tonybull

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Wonder why Martin published the photos of the fish in the first place ? Why not just keep it all to himself knowing he had caught those fish and had nothing to prove to anyone else ?
 

Cliff Hatton

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Hi Eddie, the point being the unedited photos may still exist and could provide proof of where the fish was caught. Failing that Yvonne as the last person left who knows the truth may decide to just tell everyone.

I think Yvonne should be made aware of the depth of bad feeling and number of times this has been churned up and her late husbands name dragged through the mud so publicly over the last 25 years so she can make up her own mind. ...for example a good start could be to print off the articles and all the threads that have occurred on FM and show her.

Just think finally Cliff and you could finally have some real proof in your endless quest.
We've got all the proof we need, Phil! :)
 
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