Hitting the Eastern European problem head on, morality v’s self interest?

[Nobby C (ACA)]

I don't need to back peddle on any of my views as , unlike yours , mine can be expressed freely on this forum. I don't have to hide mine , or hint at them , I can just say them. None of this "I would say this but I can't".

Of course. Well done.

 

[Simon Vicos]

Can't we educate them that Cormorants and Otters are very very tasty

And also Signal Crayfish take much less effort to catch

And all in return for them TAKING THEIR ****ING LITTER AWAY

 

[chav professor]

FM.... Still good for a squabble

 

[maverick 7]

I don't need to back peddle on any of my views as , unlike yours , mine can be expressed freely on this forum. I don't have to hide mine , or hint at them , I can just say them. None of this "I would say this but I can't".

What are you on about Benny?...I've never hidden my views on this or any other forum....I have ALWAYS freely expressed them, as well you know....

.... this must be another one of your outrageous statements?......

Maverick

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

Ask him to quote an example......:w

 

[wes79]

I don't need to back peddle on any of my views as , unlike yours , mine can be expressed freely on this forum. I don't have to hide mine , or hint at them , I can just say them. None of this "I would say this but I can't".

From wiki how. com

The concept of "political correctness" is confusing for many people. Being politically correct means that you avoid expressions and actions that may exclude, marginalize, or offend a particular group of people. The term first became popular during the 1970s and 1980s.[1] Political correctness has an important purpose: it promotes equality by demonstrating an understanding that all people and groups are valuable to society regardless of race, culture, religion, gender, or sexual orientation.

Ah I get it now, mg: how silly of me, my bad, the small minority or individuals that cause all the upset are simply our equals, morally, racially, sexually, spiritually, adding much value to our society. How I over looked that one beats me, I'm much happier inside now I've over come my automatically labelled anti-feminist, bigoted, racist, homophobic world views.
As we all come together in this celebration of the achievements and successes of this valuable minority, with such a strong moral example for us all to follow and embrace, how about the sponsored close season poaching marathon? We could get FM to sticky it, raise a bit of cash for bigger nets and paid look outs, it would at least demonstrate our understanding of such worth while principles to our society & customs while preserving our diverse wild life by offering the last few specimens a permanent place in our museums to educate more people about diverse Eco-systems.
Who would be so stupid as to argue AGAINST that? :w Save the planet fool!

Get the SU's involved, a few mega phones and placards and we are away....


Will you donate to this most excellent cause Benny? Show a bit of loyalty to the cause.

 

[maggot_dangler]

None of this "I would say this but I can't".

Is that a riddle per chance .. or some non English phrase .. :wh


PG ..

 

[bennygesserit]

Yes I agree with you all criminals should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, I think there are other things much worse than fish theft though.

 

[maverick 7]

Yes I agree with you all criminals should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, I think there are other things much worse than fish theft though.

Did I miss something?............

Maverick

 

[wes79]

Yes I agree with you all criminals should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, I think there are other things much worse than fish theft though.

That is not very politically correct Benny.

Discriminating against criminals? tut tut.

What happened to equality?

Criminal diversity, culturally enriches every aspect of our lives, to such an extent that we feel more liberated and the law reflects that.

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

Forever avoiding the awkward bits eh Benny? If stuck for words change the topic.
Oh and those examples of my not speaking openly please? Any views are substantially supported by fact so please, back your words up.

 

[nicepix]

I don't see how or where Benny has changed the topic. And his earlier post is relevant although seemingly beyond the comprehension of some on here:

Originally Posted by bennygesserit View Post
I think you can believe in Political Correctness i.e. a society which gives everyone the same chance and still believe in a strong and rigorous Police Force and Judiciary.
I'd be more than happy if anyone stealing and eating fish were prosecuted but there have been so many cutbacks and restrictions placed on our Police that I wouldn't want that done at the expense of the much more serious crime that's becoming rife in this Country at the moment.

If you believe in equality and freedom then that should be extended to everyone including and especially the little old lady that's frightened to leave the house for fear of becoming a victim. A strong Law and Order system with real deterrents leads to greater freedom for everyone.

Also if education and communication make any reduction its a much cheaper route than diverting expensive Police resources.

 

[wes79]

I don't see how or where Benny has changed the topic. And his earlier post is relevant although seemingly beyond the comprehension of some on here:

I don't think its beyond anyone's comprehension, thats' a lame cop out to be fair, which only goes half way to explaining why Benny cannot just rather state what those other crimes are and who is committing them, its purposefully being omitted for fear of a PC backlash, if not then its clearly allowing PC to rid the thought of any real ambiguity, which by itself is taking the topic quicker to that wall of fear or at least an individual questioning of PC adherence.

Example...

Sweden is now the RAPE capitol of Europe, and it has been steadily climbing in tandem with demographic statistics based on immigration ...there you go, that was easy, and factual & completely truthful.

But when you dig a bit deeper and discuss the cause you hit a PC brick wall, because you might factually be discussing things that PC hides with the premise of "equality" like RACE for example.

The statistical data proves that two RACES of people are committing the rapes in Sweden in glaringly high proportion by percentage, which isn't including Swedes raping Swedes in high numbers, which shows a higher disproportionate value to immigrants by overall numbers or by percentage since post 1997 immigration, its a statistical fact that needn't carry any derogatory terms about who is actually committing the rapes, but is still silenced by PC rules for discussing RACE in a negative light, which can be easily deemed RACIST by the use of PC, the effect of this stifles any reasoned, factual discussion on what the cause might be and how to disseminate these findings amongst others with the same concerns.
What you find is it just gets buried via forum rules or unwarranted accusations of RACISM as the term itself cannot be discussed or termed correctly and people get banned, so are forced into a reluctance to discuss the MORE SERIOUS discussions while belittling the lesser serious problems which might be related to the same cause, or in this case using others alleged mental faculties to do so, which is lame.

How would you like to eat your poached Pike is pretty much the level this discussion can go which itself might of gone beyond a few peoples comprehension, only saying like, but if your only wish is to stop at the gates of PC while others carry on, don't blame others for not really knowing the limits of where they can go beyond those gates, that is what PC fundamentally does, messes with your head, but only if you let it.

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

I don't see how or where Benny has changed the topic. And his earlier post is relevant although seemingly beyond the comprehension of some on here:

I'll tell you why shall I? So there's no comprehension difficulties:

1) This is a fishing forum, not a police forum, not a crime census, a fishing forum and the OP is about fish thefts and general abuse of the waterways by a group or groups of global society.

2) When Benny makes assertions concerning my words he should be able to back them up with factual proof otherwise his statements become meaningless.

Now, would yourself and Benny care to pick some more cherries to suit your arguments?
Like I say, if in doubt start diverting.mg:.

 

[nicepix]

I don't think its beyond anyone's comprehension, rather not state what those other crimes are and who is committing them is being omitted for fear of a PC backlash, taking the topic quicker to that wall of fear or at least an individual questioning of PC adherence.

Example...

Sweden is now the RAPE capitol of Europe, and it has been steadily climbing in tandem with demographic statistics based on immigration ...there you go, that was easy, and factual & completely truthful.

But when you dig a bit deeper and discuss the cause you hit a PC brick wall, because you might factually be discussing things that PC hides with the premise of "equality" like RACE for example.

The statistical data proves that two RACES of people are committing the rapes in Sweden in glaringly high proportion by percentage, which isn't including Swedes raping Swedes in high numbers, which shows a higher disproportionate value to immigrants by overall numbers or by percentage since post 1997 immigration, its a statistical fact that needn't carry any derogatory terms about who is actually committing the rapes, but is still silenced by PC rules for discussing RACE in a negative light, which can be easily deemed RACIST by the use of PC, the effect of this stifles any reasoned, factual discussion on what the cause might be and how to disseminate these findings amongst others with the same concerns.
What you find is it just gets buried via forum rules or unwarranted accusations of RACISM as the term itself cannot be discussed or termed correctly and people get banned, so are forced into a reluctance to discuss the MORE SERIOUS discussions.

How would you like to eat your poached Pike is pretty much the level this discussion can go which itself might of gone beyond a few peoples comprehension, only saying like.

What you appear to be doing is confusing what is 'politically correct' i.e. obeying the law, with ministers, police chiefs and council heads misinterpreting the issue, which is what happened at Rotherham and elsewhere. Misinterpreting what is 'politically correct' has been going on for decades. No one including myself or Benny are saying that EEs stealing fish isn't an issue and that it should be addressed. It is there in black and white.

What some on here don't seem to like is that it hasn't turned into a frenzy or on-line massacre of Eastern Europeans. Some of us are able to realise that this issue is not isolated, not that high up on the scale of criminality and is reflected in other areas of society;- gangs of EE pickpockets, metal thefts, etc, etc. At the end of the day whether it is Asians grooming schoolgirls, Vietnamese cultivating huge quantities of cannabis or EEs stealing fish, the root of the problem as I indicated earlier is that the Criminal Justice System has gone soft thus allowing exploitation of UK laws. From my years in the police force I know that it isn't just foreigners who have exploited this weakness.

What I would rather not see is a vigilante type operation that has in historical cases escalated into open conflict or even wars in extreme cases.

 

[thecrow]

[COLOR="Red[COLOR="Black"]"]Met Police figures, 28,000 arrests of Rumanians in 5 years, obviously not 28,000 individuals, thats quite a lot imo[/COLOR]


Some 27,725 Romanians were arrested for offences in London over the past five years, Scotland Yard said, including 10 for murder and more than 140 for rape.


The figures, published under the Freedom of Information Act, will fuel fears of a crime wave when restrictions on workers from Romania and Bulgaria are lifted in January next year.


Romanians came second only to Poles, who accounted for 34,905 arrests, including 84 for murder and almost 130 for rape.


However, there were some 587,000 migrants born in Poland living in the UK in 2011, estimates from the Office for National Statistics showed, compared with 87,000 Romanians.


Sir Andrew Green, chairman of the pressure group Migration Watch UK, said: “The extent of this Romanian criminality is a real concern for the ending of all immigration controls on Romanians and Bulgarians next year.”[/COLOR]

 

[wes79]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bennygesserit

If you believe in equality and freedom then that should be extended to everyone including and especially the little old lady that's frightened to leave the house for fear of becoming a victim. A strong Law and Order system with real deterrents leads to greater freedom for everyone.

Also if education and communication make any reduction its a much cheaper route than diverting expensive Police resources.

So how does being PC (as an individual) actually help or allow others unhindered to communicate the points you make if it includes: RACE or RACIAL immigration, heavily censored by PC?

What real deterrents can you possibly hope to achieve when the judiciary itself has to conform to PC?



---------- Post added at 03:25 ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 ----------

What you appear to be doing is confusing what is 'politically correct' i.e. obeying the law, with ministers, police chiefs and council heads misinterpreting the issue, which is what happened at Rotherham and elsewhere. Misinterpreting what is 'politically correct' has been going on for decades. No one including myself or Benny are saying that EEs stealing fish isn't an issue and that it should be addressed. It is there in black and white.

What some on here don't seem to like is that it hasn't turned into a frenzy or on-line massacre of Eastern Europeans. Some of us are able to realise that this issue is not isolated, not that high up on the scale of criminality and is reflected in other areas of society;- gangs of EE pickpockets, metal thefts, etc, etc. At the end of the day whether it is Asians grooming schoolgirls, Vietnamese cultivating huge quantities of cannabis or EEs stealing fish, the root of the problem as I indicated earlier is that the Criminal Justice System has gone soft thus allowing exploitation of UK laws. From my years in the police force I know that it isn't just foreigners who have exploited this weakness.

What I would rather not see is a vigilante type operation that has in historical cases escalated into open conflict or even wars in extreme cases.

Ok, if the confusion is caused by my post and as you say I'm using others "misinterpreting" what PC actually is, please define it for the benefit of the thread (and myself as you imply I appear to be misinterpreting the issue).

Please offer me the best definition from the highest authority on PC (political correctness).

Also what happened at Rotherham and else where are the result of forced "equality" and "immigration", never put to vote nor was discussed to any length by the people themselves prior, we were told we are all "equal". You forgot to mention that these people can only commit these crimes once they have been allowed into the country to do so, while everyone seems to be in confusion about what to do about it, would the cause of that confusion actually be the PC grip on the judiciary and the Police and the Ministers by any chance?
After all we are now discussing the correct way to think, are we not? Law= right path or wrong path (do you feel equal to a rapist or murderer?) I don't.

 

[nicepix]

So how does being PC (as an individual) actually help or allow others unhindered to communicate the points you make if it includes: RACE or RACIAL immigration, heavily censored by PC?

What real deterrents can you possibly hope to achieve when the judiciary itself has to conform to PC?



---------- Post added at 03:25 ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 ----------



Ok, if the confusion is caused by my post and as you say I'm "misinterpreting" what PC actually is, please define it for the benefit of the thread (and myself as you imply I appear to be misinterpreting the issue).

Please offer me the best definition from the highest authority on PC (political correctness).

The simple answer is that everyone should be treated the same without fear or favour. And if you can achieve that you'll be the first.

The Romanian criminals highlighted above are similar to the old Klondyke gold rush guys. Easy pickings. The way to bring about change is through what is commonly called democracy and this week is just the right time to make your voices heard. Log onto: TheyWorkForYou: Hansard and Official Reports for the UK Parliament, Scottish Parliament, and Northern Ireland Assembly - done right enter your postcode and send a message to your MP asking what they intend doing about the problem.

 

[bennygesserit]

What you appear to be doing is confusing what is 'politically correct' i.e. obeying the law, with ministers, police chiefs and council heads misinterpreting the issue, which is what happened at Rotherham and elsewhere. Misinterpreting what is 'politically correct' has been going on for decades. No one including myself or Benny are saying that EEs stealing fish isn't an issue and that it should be addressed. It is there in black and white.

What some on here don't seem to like is that it hasn't turned into a frenzy or on-line massacre of Eastern Europeans. Some of us are able to realise that this issue is not isolated, not that high up on the scale of criminality and is reflected in other areas of society;- gangs of EE pickpockets, metal thefts, etc, etc. At the end of the day whether it is Asians grooming schoolgirls, Vietnamese cultivating huge quantities of cannabis or EEs stealing fish, the root of the problem as I indicated earlier is that the Criminal Justice System has gone soft thus allowing exploitation of UK laws. From my years in the police force I know that it isn't just foreigners who have exploited this weakness.

What I would rather not see is a vigilante type operation that has in historical cases escalated into open conflict or even wars in extreme cases.

spot on !

If I was saying there was no problem why would I be advocating communication and I am only advocating communication as a cheap way of having at least some affect. For the last time I'd be more than happy if those who broke the law are dealt with by the law and sentenced.

Trouble is a forum is completely the wrong way to exchange views you are never going to "win" an argument the best you might do is persuade some people , who aren't contributing , to consider a different way of looking at something.

However I'd be interested in what others have done about this problem - have they actually done anything - now there really is straight question.

What have I done -

Joined the Angling Trust for one year
Joined a Polish Fishing Forum and tried to spread the message
Spoken to numerous EE's while walking the dog or fishing the canal to spread that same message
Spoken to a local group who were trying to police a stretch of canal ( without being vigilantes ) and reported , to that same group , EEs who have confirmed to me that they were planning to take fish namely carp.

Now that's not much I know but I'd like to know how it compares to what Wes , Nobby and Maverick have done I'm certain , by their tone , that they have done a lot more than I have and if they have well done to them.

 

[wes79]

The simple answer is that everyone should be treated the same without fear or favour. And if you can achieve that you'll be the first.

The Romanian criminals highlighted above are similar to the old Klondyke gold rush guys. Easy pickings. The way to bring about change is through what is commonly called democracy and this week is just the right time to make your voices heard. Log onto: TheyWorkForYou: Hansard and Official Reports for the UK Parliament, Scottish Parliament, and Northern Ireland Assembly - done right enter your postcode and send a message to your MP asking what they intend doing about the problem.

What you are doing is offering me use of the system that had already denied me a voice using the concept of foresight.
Somehow this time round, the same system of thought offers me or will allow me to have a voice but to complain only about what they originally denied me my voice on before? Democracy is a cruel joke or 51%percent robbing the 49% at best.
People still insist on using a system that cannot keep up with the level of destruction we are now having to discuss on a fishing forum, it beggars belief.
Is that your interpretation of what PC means nicepix or is that documented so can be sourced by everyone? (police, judiciary, you, me etc).
Should we not show our concern for our dwindling inheritance (kids) being used as meat for fear of NOT being politically correct? The stakes are high and I'm not a gambling man myself.
Do you feel equal to those that are happy with that situation unabated? I don't.
Even when people have nothing to lose and have no choice but to defend their inheritance, will you subscribe to those as being "extreme"? (PC has already got words for them all...)

---------- Post added at 04:07 ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 ----------

spot on !

If I was saying there was no problem why would I be advocating communication and I am only advocating communication as a cheap way of having at least some affect. For the last time I'd be more than happy if those who broke the law are dealt with by the law and sentenced.

Trouble is a forum is completely the wrong way to exchange views you are never going to "win" an argument the best you might do is persuade some people , who aren't contributing , to consider a different way of looking at something.

However I'd be interested in what others have done about this problem - have they actually done anything - now there really is straight question.

What have I done -

Joined the Angling Trust for one year
Joined a Polish Fishing Forum and tried to spread the message
Spoken to numerous EE's while walking the dog or fishing the canal to spread that same message
Spoken to a local group who were trying to police a stretch of canal ( without being vigilantes ) and reported , to that same group , EEs who have confirmed to me that they were planning to take fish namely carp.

Now that's not much I know but I'd like to know how it compares to what Wes , Nobby and Maverick have done I'm certain , by their tone , that they have done a lot more than I have and if they have well done to them.

I certainly don't want vigilantes patrolling the waters but are we ever going to be collectively allowed to draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough, no more?
How much time do you personally think we should allow before everything is destroyed in front of us, incrementally and slowly, year by year? The EA only want your money and that is a branch of the .govs that effectively have the same ethic.
Also when you wrote you are only advocating communication as a cheap way of having at least some affect, how can it be effective when PC is acting as a referee all the time? To add, as before, how can you possibly expect ANY change for the better in the knowledge that even the judiciary has become ideologically shaped by PC now that the damage to the waters (and the country as a whole) is now becoming apparent and effecting everyone?