If commercials never existed

[Reemul]

I don't know why we are bothered by what they are labelled as. Like so what.

It's a bit like golf, I play and am pretty decent, my son also plays and he is very decent, you go to some clubs and they want what matching knee length socks of a certain colour and others want stuff tucked in or not tucked in and some golfers come across as too stuff or up themselves judging people when they shouldn't or have no right to. This feels a bit like this.

The question I am wondering is who does it benefit, this label that actually fishes, is it positive, does it bring anything good or decent to fishing or does it benefits no one regardless of what you think. Now days it feels we need to label everything we don't agree with, are loathe to live and let live and certainly feel people should agree with us rather than just get on with enjoying what it is you do.

 

[no-one in particular]

Is 1 poor and 10 good?

Yep, doesn't it make more sense to you than just describing a water as a day ticket, a commercial, club water which doesn't really say anything; especial commercial as everyone more or less has a different idea as to what one is. If I came across a real mud hole I could give it a 0 same as everyone else would but at least we could all understand what we are given a 0 to.

 

[sam vimes]

I don't know why we are bothered by what they are labelled as. Like so what.

In the grand scheme of things it matters not one jot. However, it would be quite good if we weren't constantly at odds because we are all using one term and meaning totally different things. However, I'll never get onboard with the idea that every club and day ticket water in the land is, by default, a commercial fishery.

I couldn't care less what a fishery might be called. If it's worth fishing, I'm quite happy. However, whatever "type" of fishery it may be, if it is too busy, you won't see me for dust. Being too close to strangers, or within earshot of lots of others, is an absolute angling anathema to me. I don't object to being able to see others fishing nearby, but I definitely don't want to hear their conversations.

 

[Keith M]

It doesn't matter at all whether a fishery is a commercial or not, you either like to have all the benefits of a commercial with higher stock levels and all the other benefits that you often get at commercials or you prefer the more remote and less crowded fisheries which have a more normal stock of fish in them.


Both require a certain amount of watercraft allbiet slightly different watercraft to the other, and both often require some different tactics but both are equally as good as each other and both have their own skill sets.
One is certainly not superior to the other, that's for sure.

Keith

 

[Philip]

It sounds like hardly anyone on FM is fishing what appears to be considered a "commercial" in its purest sense. So perhas people should just start saying "lake".

 

[rayner]

Well, no one objected to us all being in the same game, praise the Lord.
One thing that did spring to mind was if there was a disaster and only organised fishing was the only option then how many would fish such a venue.
Or would they just retire their tackle and turn to some other activity?
We have discovered the perceived idea of commercial fisheries is generally far from what some anglers believe. They may start as a hole but soon progress to decent fisheries. If you don't like to fish in such a hole that's OK by me, there are far too many anglers frequent commercials.
Oh, I wish some would turn to fish rivers.

 

[markcw]

The EA restock our rivers. Does that make them commercials? Of course not. The whole proposition is preposterous . I judge a commercial by what I’ve seen. Too many anglers side by side using fishery pellets casting to artificial islands or aerators for F1’s . Matches played out day after day with full keep nets. Keep nets are forbidden on all my waters. I don’t need to hmm and arr about whether the venue is a commercial or not and I’m not even fishing there . Not for me. Maybe I’ll think differently in 10 years time but for the moment I’m content with the waters my 3 club memberships offer, blanks included.

Mike,Lymm Dam is not a natural water, and seeing as day tickets are available, that could class it as a commercial.
At one time it was a 100 peg water that was filled every christmas for the fur and feather,
Midweek matches averaged 30 anglers.
I went for a walk round it last year, and to be honest I think BM have ruined it by reducing the pegs by at least half and taking a lot of the good ones out.
Dunham is a commercial, the first pool is what you would call a strip lake, pegs either side of a central island.
The other one which I think was the original one, has matured nicely over the years and looks as if it is a natural pool instead of a " hole in the ground"
Same goes with Home Farm at Alsager.
Lloyd's Meadow is another example of a good natural looking set of waters.
A club I am in down here has 4 gravel pits, there are benches and picnic tables around them, all natural looking.
And Cotswold Water Park is a huge complex of waters that are not your stereotype commercial.

 

[peterjg]

Fishing for me and many others is not just a pastime it is a way of life. I don't do much night fishing now (done over 1200 nights) but I still go three days a week (I have a very understanding wife!). If fishing only meant being able to go to 'commercial' waters then yes I think I would still go but with some reluctance. Teasing Rayner aside, of course some are much nicer than others but there is not much appeal in fishing one of those manicured synthetic waters.

 

[mikench]

By the very nature of a dam, man's work is involved. I accept that Lymm Dam is a dayticket water but not a commercial in my mind although whatever it is is immaterial. It's a beautiful water but not easy to fish. It's spoilt somewhat to my mind because of the boardwalk down one side which encourages, dog walkers, cyclists and little old ladies asking silly questions and expressing horror at a tub of maggots. See my post on HDYGO.

 

[silvers]

Ah, the pitfalls of trying to apply a binary classification (commie/not a commie) to what is really a continuous distribution!

As a match angler, I see “commie” simply as a term to identify waters that are heavily stocked with carp (and now F1s).
These may be muddy hole or very pretty, and they definitely require a lot of skills to win open matches on them ... i just enjoy more variety in my fishing targets. I also think they’ve helped to destroy match fishing.

would I fish them if nothing else available? Yes, but I hope it doesn’t come to that!

 

[steve2]

Ah, the pitfalls of trying to apply a binary classification (commie/not a commie) to what is really a continuous distribution!

As a match angler, I see “commie” simply as a term to identify waters that are heavily stocked with carp (and now F1s).
These may be muddy hole or very pretty, and they definitely require a lot of skills to win open matches on them ... i just enjoy more variety in my fishing targets. I also think they’ve helped to destroy match fishing.

would I fish them if nothing else available? Yes, but I hope it doesn’t come to that!

If all I had to fish were my local commies I would give all my tackle away and say goodbye fishing.

 

[mikench]

Fishing anywhere requires skill I accept that. Commercials might be heavily stocked but , as today, they can be very difficult and frustrating to fish. They are not a guarantee of success.

 

[no-one in particular]

All I can say is don't always believe the stereotype, Go and have a look or look it up online. Don't limit yourself and you may be surprised. Even if there is a stuffed F1 lake there is very likely a nice mixed lake on the same venue and don't just assume it will be easy fishing, such lakes seldom are and with nice secluded swims and they are not always heavily stocked beyond the pail. You may also find that lake is in very nice surroundings and empty especially during the week; I remember one where my mate and I had a lake apiece all to ourselves most weekdays, they were right next to each other so we could sit yards apart, you don't get better than that and they were not small lakes either. There may be a match on although I did not have that problem but that doesn't mean the rest of the fishery is closed and these are big places often enough. There are some non carp lakes around as well on these venues if you search for them, I have found a few, not many it is true but some proprietors are canny enough to provide them. If you don't find anything fair enough but anglers should try different places to fish for themselves, that's part of the adventure in my opinion. I wouldn't dismiss a venue just because of some general label put on it by biased anglers who have there mind set whether they have tried it or not, if I had done that I would have missed some great days fishing and some great places to fish. There were some bummers but is that not true of anywhere; they are always worth consideration and a good look with a bit of an open mind and adventurous spirit. No two fisheries are the same and many offer more than just the one type of fishing.

 

[wetthrough]

If commercials had never existed would anglers be using pellets? As I understand it people started using pellets as stocked fish were reared on them. To newly stocked fish it was their natural diet so a logical step. Were people using pellets before the proliferation of 'commercials'?

 

[markcw]

If commercials had never existed would anglers be using pellets? As I understand it people started using pellets as stocked fish were reared on them. To newly stocked fish it was their natural diet so a logical step. Were people using pellets before the proliferation of 'commercials'?

I was using rabbit feed pellets on both the River Bollin at Warburton and stretches of the Bridgewater Canal and on some Lymm club waters before Meadow View and Brookside which were more or less the first commercials in Warrington were dug out.
There used to be a rabbit farm in Lymm, I had a friend who worked there, he tried them out and had some good catches, also there was animal feed mill on the Bollin at Warburton, the workers there used all sorts of feed on the hook when fished the Bollin.
The beauty of using rabbit feed pellets is that they are vegetable based and take on any flavour if required, do not need pumping, Soak a few and they go spongy and can be hooked directly, and are a cheaper alternative to shop bought feed pellets for fishing.
I still use them now and then.

 

[rayner]

It's obvious to me that just because I fish commercial venues that members believe they were my choice, that's not strictly true. For me, it was either fish commercials or just don't fish. Seeing as the only activity I can safely manage is what commercials offer I have no option.
It did take a while for me to accept that either get in the right frame of mind to fish or spend all my time sitting on the settee at home. Eventually, I got to grips with the idea so much so that remembering How I would spend all my time on the Trent is a distant memory.

We still have a few members who insist on thinking F1s are in most commies that's far from true. There may be a few waters that build their stock around the blighters, that's not to say they all do.
Stocking of different species is the way of most, having said that the fishery that I frequent on a regular basis removed a strong quantity of roach for breeding purposes. The EA is a law to themselves with how they carry on.
Fisheries stock all the usual suspects with the addition of two species that spring to mind such as barbel and chub of course river fish that do very well in still waters.
Unfortunately, the F1 explosion hasn't yet reached everywhere I have no doubt it more than likely will. It seems matchmen want the fish race that the F1s provide. When it does if I'm still able to fish I will change again to catch them the best I can.
Ide was thought to be the fish to provide year-round sport, in the cold weather they can disappear now it's F1s that fisheries look to for extra bites.
It's a case of pay your money and takes your choice soon it won't be.

 

[no-one in particular]

It's obvious to me that just because I fish commercial venues that members believe they were my choice, that's not strictly true. For me, it was either fish commercials or just don't fish. Seeing as the only activity I can safely manage is what commercials offer I have no option.
It did take a while for me to accept that either get in the right frame of mind to fish or spend all my time sitting on the settee at home. Eventually, I got to grips with the idea so much so that remembering How I would spend all my time on the Trent is a distant memory.

We still have a few members who insist on thinking F1s are in most commies that's far from true. There may be a few waters that build their stock around the blighters, that's not to say they all do.
Stocking of different species is the way of most, having said that the fishery that I frequent on a regular basis removed a strong quantity of roach for breeding purposes. The EA is a law to themselves with how they carry on.
Fisheries stock all the usual suspects with the addition of two species that spring to mind such as barbel and chub of course river fish that do very well in still waters.
Unfortunately, the F1 explosion hasn't yet reached everywhere I have no doubt it more than likely will. It seems matchmen want the fish race that the F1s provide. When it does if I'm still able to fish I will change again to catch them the best I can.
Ide was thought to be the fish to provide year-round sport, in the cold weather they can disappear now it's F1s that fisheries look to for extra bites.
It's a case of pay your money and takes your choice soon it won't be.

I think you and me have been on the same page for some time Rayner or at least in the same book. You through no choice and me just because I didnt care what the fishing was as long as I had a nice time. And you appear to be doing that even though it is not the Trent. Its not the reason I always defend commies, just because they are convenient for some anglers but it is a good point in their favour. I think we should be a bit more grateful to those pioneers that started this thing with their mud holes and experiments and their efforts to make decent attractive fisheries even it was for commercial gain, where would we be if commies did not exist was the question and I think a lot less diversity and variety to suit us all in the long run is my answer.
The subject is getting a bit stale now but it has been interesting nevertheless.

 

[markcw]

Blenheim Palace has a few lakes.
They charge a day ticket .
Would this be classed as a commercial.?
Same goes for Nostell Priory.

 

[rayner]

Yes Mark for me this thread as definitely run its course.
Been interesting though to see how some anglers perceive any fisheries that aren't to their liking. The end of the day who really cares if folk are for or against.
The number of patrons who frequent such waters shows they are very popular, I've never come across so many members of a group who are it seems unable to admit they fish the dreaded commercial. Not too many have nailed their colours to one mast or the other.

 

[sam vimes]

Why do people choose to believe that you are either for or against something? Sure, there are people that love commies (however they define them) and those that are so vehemently opposed to them that they'll not set foot on anything with even a whiff of being one. I'm pretty sure most people just view them as another venue that they either choose to frequent or not. Just as there are with the definitions of the fisheries, there are shades of grey in most people's attitudes towards them, it not an all or nothing situation.