If commercials never existed

[mikench]

I choose a venue according to the weather, the bait I have available, the method of fishing I want to pursue, whether i am going alone, the fish I fancy catching, the time of year, the distance I am prepared to travel and how I got on there last time out. If that's a commie on a club card or a secluded club pool then so be it.

One important point in favour of a commercial is that if 4 mates with different club memberships wish to fish together then the only way is often the commercial. They have their place and I can enjoy them but given a choice I will stick to my club waters. Incidentally I have over 250 to go at so I really don't need a commercial that often.

 

[no-one in particular]

Why do people choose to believe that you are either for or against something? Sure, there are people that love commies (however they define them) and those that are so vehemently opposed to them that they'll not set foot on anything with even a whiff of being one. I'm pretty sure most people just view them as another venue that they either choose to frequent or not. Just as there are with the definitions of the fisheries, there are shades of grey in most people's attitudes towards them, it not an all or nothing situation.

I will try to answer that, if it was the case that they are just for or against easy mud puddles, fair enough, I don't like them either. It is when you get into the for or against all easy mud puddles so then they are against all commies because they they are all like that. I just try to educate people that they are not all like that.
There was one angler, might have been on here, I cannot remember but, he bought some new poles and just wanted to try them out so, he went and found the one easy mud puddle on a commie and caught loads of fish so he was pleased that he got to try his new pole out. He never tried any of the other lakes on the commie or any other commie again. He decided commercials were for idiots and said so all based on one experience on one lake on one commie. I think some base their view on even less than that, just what they hear so, when they might have decided that on no more than the example above, I try to give my view which is based on at least having tried out quite a few.
That's my beef because I feel this might be the case for many views or similar because the beliefs and the descriptions of commies and the anglers who fish them held by many is not based on the reality or experience of them. Its just so much the opposite of my personal experience I have to say something. It is more complicated than just a view on what is no more than a general term "commercial" but many seem to do this and are either completely against or for, usually the former.

 

[sam vimes]

I will try to answer that, if it was the case that they are just for or against easy mud puddles, fair enough, I don't like them either. It is when you get into the for or against all easy mud puddles so then they are against all commies because they they are all like that. I just try to educate people that they are not all like that.
There was one angler, might have been on here, I cannot remember but, he bought some new poles and just wanted to try them out so, he went and found the one easy mud puddle on a commie and caught loads of fish so he was pleased that he got to try his new pole out. He never tried any of the other lakes on the commie or any other commie again. He decided commercials were for idiots and said so all based on one experience on one lake on one commie. I think some base their view on even less than that, just what they hear so, when they might have decided that on no more than the example above, I try to give my view which is based on at least having tried out quite a few.
That's my beef because I feel this might be the case for many views or similar because the beliefs and the descriptions of commies and the anglers who fish them held by many is not based on the reality or experience of them. Its just so much the opposite of my personal experience I have to say something. It is more complicated than just a view on what is no more than a general term "commercial" but many seem to do this and are either completely against or for, usually the former.

That's not at all what I was asking. I couldn't care less why someone else might like or dislike a commie. What I was asking was why the lovers and haters of commercials seem to be so desperate to pigeonhole everyone else into either loving or hating them. They allow for no shade in between. Frankly, anyone at either extreme is wasting their time trying to convince anyone to change their minds, especially those with entrenched views. Besides, why does it matter enough for them to even want to try? It makes about as much sense as trying to promote Chinese food because you love it, or convince everyone that it's terrible because you hate it.

I also fish the odd "commie", at least if I use the very broad brush definition that some obviously do. I still avoid the two out and out commies in the area. That's not because they are "muddy holes" (no matter how they started, they're both at least a couple of decades old and well past being that). It's because they are way too busy, even in winter. I've even convinced the odd anti to give a "commie" (their description, not mine) a try. Some have liked them, some haven't. However, I'll only bother with any fishery, regardless of type, when it isn't busy. That's the only criteria I have. I'm neither a great lover nor hater of "commies". Fisheries are either places I might go, at times, or places I won't. There are even stretches of river that I'll avoid like the plague because they are simply too busy.

 

[rob48]

So a contest on a pond has been won with 714lb, including the use of SEVENTEEN keep-nets. He landed a carp every two minutes. I'm guessing that was a commercial.

 

[sam vimes]

So a contest on a pond has been won with 714lb, including the use of SEVENTEEN keep-nets. He landed a carp every two minutes. I'm guessing that was a commercial.

It was the Angel Of The North fishery near Birtley (Gateshead). The only fishery north of Thirsk that I would consider as a full on commie.

 

[rob48]

It was the Angel Of The North fishery near Birtley (Gateshead). The only fishery north of Thirsk that I would consider as a full on commie.

Sounds more like a factory.

 

[sam vimes]

Sounds more like a factory.

I wouldn't know, I've not even seen the water in the ponds since the trees grew big enough to block the view from the A1.

 

[peterjg]

714lbs AND 17 KEEPNETS!!! I REST MY CASE!!!

 

[Philip]

I had second thoughts .....

 

[rayner]

714lbs AND 17 KEEPNETS!!! I REST MY CASE!!!

Yes, it happens every day on every fishery.

 

[steve2]

My local overstocked commie regularly turns up weight of 400lbs but only allows 60lbs in a keep net on fish welfare grounds. What a joke.

 

[no-one in particular]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. The record match weight is 1500lb. There are 3 lakes there, two 50% silver/50% carp, one 30/70%. There are tench, perch, golden tench, roach, bream etc. Two of the lakes look quite pleasant, ones a bit open looking for me. There are the usual facilities, shop, toilets, parking etc. I would happily spend an afternoon there catching silver fish and small carp. I don't like big carp when I am fishing a mixed lake as they just smash you up. The point is I am not in a match, I would not be looking to fill 17 nets, in fact I wouldn't be using a net at all and I would be taking my time in relaxed pleasure fishing mode; if I just steadily caught good fish I don't see what is wrong with that. If I caught one every 15 mins which is doubtful that's only 24 fish in 6 hours and that could be a nice mixed bag. I don't disagree, it is probably over-stocked on at least one lake and that can be obscene but all in all and judging by the website it does not look a bad place to fish; worth a try in book. The point is If there is one lake with match anglers on it going hammer and tongs at it for 6 hours as they do, that's a long way from what i do as a pleasure angler and the result I want and they don't appear to have a match everyday, I bet there is a nice bit of mixed fishing to be had there on a quiet weekday in nice surroundings. And this is the case on most commercials on my past experience.

Are there any rules on fish stocking density/ do the RSPCA get involved, is it not cruel to stock fish over a certain density? They are wild creatures and there are rules for that I am sure, why not fish.

 

[Philip]

Are there any rules on fish stocking density/ do the RSPCA get involved, is it not cruel to stock fish over a certain density? They are wild creatures and there are rules for that I am sure, why not fish.

If there were then allot of people with garden ponds could be in trouble....

 

[Keith M]

If the fish in a water can’t survive without any anglers bait, or through being artificially fed throughout the year then in my view it isn’t stocked to natural stocking levels.

Non of the waters that I fish now are overstocked to these levels, and in the past I’ve fished many team matches on commercials that have been purposely heavily stocked and if I was not fishing in a match I certainly wouldn’t enjoy fishing them for pleasure, no matter how nice they appeared to be, and after continually filling my net with relatively easy hungry fish any enjoyment I had would be lost, as well as any real challenge.

However I can see the draw of these places for some.

Keith

 

[Philip]

Some waters are so stuffed with natural food they are teeming with fish. It is very very easy to catch lots of fish in these waters, far easier than some of the hole in the ground purpose dug venues so I think the term "natural" water can sometimes give a misleading idea of how difficult the fishing actually is.

 

[steve2]

The recommended stock of a fishery is around 800lbs per acre dependent on water quality and available natural food. Some commercials stock at over 2000lbs per acre that is on waters little natural food. I have often wonder what the depth of water would be if you removed the fish from some of these ponds.

 

[no-one in particular]

I think this is the right page https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/10/contents/made but having a brief look through it I cannot find any rule that states fish can only be stocked at a certain level. There is something about stocking to a level that would be natural IE without the effect of pollution etc but that refers to eels I think. I think must of it is about introducing fish to inland waters. Then again is that what clubs and commercials do and does this legislation include that. I have only had a cursory look and this would require more looking at and a better understanding than I can give it.
I do think there should be some legal limit based on size, depth and type of water, not just a recommendation.

 

[no-one in particular]

If the fish in a water can’t survive without any anglers bait, or through being artificially fed throughout the year then in my view it isn’t stocked to natural stocking levels.

Non of the waters that I fish now are overstocked to these levels, and in the past I’ve fished many team matches on commercials that have been purposely heavily stocked and if I was not fishing in a match I certainly wouldn’t enjoy fishing them for pleasure, no matter how nice they appeared to be, and after continually filling my net with relatively easy hungry fish any enjoyment I had would be lost, as well as any real challenge.

However I can see the draw of these places for some.

Keith

If you fished the fishery as I described it as shown on a week day, no match going on, just a few anglers if any on one of the lakes and for pleasure and caught a mixed bag of small carp, tench, roach etc of say about 20/30 fish in 6 hours which I think is realistic providing something has not put them off like drops in water temps for example or they are already fed which must be just the same for these fish as on a natural water. 20/30 fish is only about a fish every 15 mins in 6 hours, you wouldn't be continually filling a net and might still have to fish hard to catch that many. Would you enjoy that? I think it would be worth trying if I lived near it, I wouldn't dismiss it just based on what could possibly be one freak match weight. The other matches reported on its website are around the 80-100lb mark which is not abnormal to a skilled match angler who is used to this type of fishing. Pleasure anglers fishing the non match mixed lake would rarely match that. I don't know what my average was on commercial type fisheries, nothing like any of these weights that's for sure and I used to try hard. And that would usually be from about 8/9am to 6/7pm. If I got 20 or 30 lb that would have been a good day and it was often less than that. That would be on normal lakes though, not one of these heavy stocked F1 match lakes which if they were there I personally wouldn't choose to fish.

 

[no-one in particular]

I think I was lucky, when I started fishing again after a break with some friends around 2000. None of us had a computer, we would just hear of a fishery and off we went to try it, if we liked it we went back a few times if it was not any good for any number of reasons we never went back. We found a few gems along the way. If any of us were using the internet back then I doubt that would have happened, we would have thought they were all crap.

 

[mikench]

I rarely weigh fish these days save for the fish that look and feel bigger and heavier than previous fish caught. I don't use a keep net and never have. In truth most of my club waters ban their use. I cannot recall seeing one in use.

I don't decry their sensible and careful use however . I know I wouldn't fare well fishing a match and really have no desire to do so. I suspect the future is bright for commies if the memberships of clubs remain closed. I noticed in the Fishomania final that keepnets were emptied ( after weighing) every 30 minutes so that makes sense and must be better for fish. The cynic in me thinks that more fish back in the swim to recatch rather than fish welfare may be the reason.

If the conditions for keeping a healthy aquarium can be extrapolated to lakes and pools then too many fish require aeration, food and regular water testing to guard against an increase in ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels. Rises in the former, temperature and low oxygen levels are the kiss of death for most fish especially roach, Rudd and bream. Carp are more robust however due to a different gill structure. Live and let live I say but I shall keep away from most commercials.