Hitting the Eastern European problem head on, morality v’s self interest?

[binka]

Just to redress the balance; it came to my notice a few months ago that some British anglers were night fishing for catfish which is not allowed over here in France. You can only fish for carp at night on public waters, and only in specific places. There are regular checks carried out by fishery police day and night but it would be difficult for them to distinguish between carp gear and catfish tackle unless they asked the anglers to reel in.

I remember seeing one of Matt Hayes' programmes where there was a guy fishing for large catfish on one of the big rivers in France and he mentioned that it was illegal from thirty minutes after sunset.

Purely out of interest Clive why's that if carp fishing is still permitted?

 

[stu_the_blank]

would be difficult for them to distinguish between carp gear and catfish tackle unless they asked the anglers to reel in.

Have you never heard of the live eel rig for carp officer

Stu

 

[thecrow]

NP as an English angler living in France you (and I would think others) have had to acquaint yourself with the laws regarding angling in that country, did it involve anything that EEs could not have done here if they wished to?

 

[jet53]

So, my calm sensible post has been censored! What a crock that is. If politics is part of the problem am I not allowed to say it even on a fishing forum? What's the world coming to?
Political correctness alive and well.

 

[nicepix]

I remember seeing one of Matt Hayes' programmes where there was a guy fishing for large catfish on one of the big rivers in France and he mentioned that it was illegal from thirty minutes after sunset.

Purely out of interest Clive why's that if carp fishing is still permitted?

France today is like what the UK was like fifty years ago. They protect their traditions in that there is no 'lamping' for rabbits and other game at night, everyone who wants to hunt in any form must pass an exam and join the local 'Chasse' or hunting association and methods of hunting and fishing are strictly controlled. When you buy your rod licence you also get a booklet of rules and regulations and locations of different category waters such as trout, coarse and night fishing venues. If you buy a rod licence you can't plead ignorance. They give you the rules in full every year.

Night fishing was not allowed until relatively recently and only was begrudgingly allowed due to pressure from younger elements. The committees running angling in the regions are very much traditional pole anglers and resisted the change. However, there is now a huge interest in 'Peche Anglais' including waggler and feeder fishing and carp fishing has really taken off.

There are designated areas on rivers and public lakes where you will see signs: "Carpe de Nuit" and it is only there that you can night fish and then only for carp. Ironically some of these river locations are also home to barbel and catfish and so there are a lot of accidental captures. Some anglers take the pee by fishing 5lb tc rods with 2/0 Owner hooks to Catlink using live and dead fish as baits in these 'Carpe de Nuit" areas. If caught they face fines into the thousands of Euros and confiscation of tackle. The armed French fisheries police don't mess about.

 

[bennygesserit]

I think you can believe in Political Correctness i.e. a society which gives everyone the same chance and still believe in a strong and rigorous Police Force and Judiciary.
I'd be more than happy if anyone stealing and eating fish were prosecuted but there have been so many cutbacks and restrictions placed on our Police that I wouldn't want that done at the expense of the much more serious crime that's becoming rife in this Country at the moment.

If you believe in equality and freedom then that should be extended to everyone including and especially the little old lady that's frightened to leave the house for fear of becoming a victim. A strong Law and Order system with real deterrents leads to greater freedom for everyone.

Also if education and communication make any reduction its a much cheaper route than diverting expensive Police resources.

 

[nicepix]

NP as an English angler living in France you (and I would think others) have had to acquaint yourself with the laws regarding angling in that country, did it involve anything that EEs could not have done here if they wished to?

I have fished the freshwater dams in Cyprus and the problem with EEs night fishing and taking fish for the pot is just as endemic over there as in the UK. I understand from friends that Ireland is also suffering a similar problem.

But again to redress the balance; if you bring a UK registered car into France you are obliged by law to register it onto French plates after 6 months. Yet there are thousands of UK registered cars and vans permanently over here that have been here for years. No road tax paid in the UK, no MOT or French equivalent CT and the UK insurance would be void should they have or cause an accident.

It is not all one way. Look at the number of illegal off-road motorbikes are tearing up and down your streets and parks. They aren't EEs. That's home grown criminals.

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:46 ----------

I think you can believe in Political Correctness i.e. a society which gives everyone the same chance and still believe in a strong and rigorous Police Force and Judiciary.
I'd be more than happy if anyone stealing and eating fish were prosecuted but there have been so many cutbacks and restrictions placed on our Police that I wouldn't want that done at the expense of the much more serious crime that's becoming rife in this Country at the moment.

If you believe in equality and freedom then that should be extended to everyone including and especially the little old lady that's frightened to leave the house for fear of becoming a victim. A strong Law and Order system with real deterrents leads to greater freedom for everyone.

Also if education and communication make any reduction its a much cheaper route than diverting expensive Police resources.

The problem is Benny that the police are spending more and more time wiping the arrises of the non-working classes; Facebook and text threats for example, and stepping into roles that were never intended for police officers; guarding medical staff in A&E and picking up all the work that is dumped on them by council social service and CPS cutbacks, that they have little time to do what used to be the core role of protecting life and property and enforcing the law.

When some do gooder decides that they will put Dwain on a drugs rehabilitation course instead of banging him up for a month it costs the public four or five times as much (money going into private consultancy companies) and results in an increase in re-offending because of the soft option. Same with probation instead of jail and fines that they don't pay.

The police have enough resources to cope if they could be used properly and got support from the other elements of the CJS.

 

[bennygesserit]

I have fished the freshwater dams in Cyprus and the problem with EEs night fishing and taking fish for the pot is just as endemic over there as in the UK. I understand from friends that Ireland is also suffering a similar problem.

But again to redress the balance; if you bring a UK registered car into France you are obliged by law to register it onto French plates after 6 months. Yet there are thousands of UK registered cars and vans permanently over here that have been here for years. No road tax paid in the UK, no MOT or French equivalent CT and the UK insurance would be void should they have or cause an accident.

It is not all one way. Look at the number of illegal off-road motorbikes are tearing up and down your streets and parks. They aren't EEs. That's home grown criminals.

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:46 ----------



The problem is Benny that the police are spending more and more time wiping the arrises of the non-working classes; Facebook and text threats for example, and stepping into roles that were never intended for police officers; guarding medical staff in A&E and picking up all the work that is dumped on them by council social service and CPS cutbacks, that they have little time to do what used to be the core role of protecting life and property and enforcing the law.

When some do gooder decides that they will put Dwain on a drugs rehabilitation course instead of banging him up for a month it costs the public four or five times as much (money going into private consultancy companies) and results in an increase in re-offending because of the soft option. Same with probation instead of jail and fines that they don't pay.

The police have enough resources to cope if they could be used properly and got support from the other elements of the CJS.

I totally agree with you

 

[The bad one]

Wrong again even misquoting what you originally accused me of which if I remember correctly was THEFT OF FISHING RIGHTS, NOT larceny, show me the exact part of the theft act where until recently it said theft of fishing rights, as I said I COULD NOT have been accused of theft of fishing rights because that never existed when I was guesting so you see your wrong yet again, he he cheer up you aint wrong all the time just some of it.

Hilarious

More **ss and twisting in the wind from you, You are thief of someone’s fishing rights! It was written in both Acts the Larceny Act 1916 to 1968, and as you haven’t grasped it yet that act was repealed and superseded by the Theft Act 1968. Larceny and Theft mean the same thing doh!
The use of the word Theft as in Theft Act was used to modernise the word Larceny as in Larceny Act 1916. The vast majority of clauses and offences in the Larceny Act were amalgamated into the then new Theft Act 1968. The larceny, stealing, theft (which ever word you chose to use) of fishing rights being part of both from their enactment. Now, today, legally classed as Theft of Fishing rights (modernised). The words change with the times the meaning and offences don’t. Got it now!
Now you show me/us where in either act you were not a thief?

 

[ken more]

You do know crows cant read don't you?

Are you actually a real Crow that goes fishing F@ckin amazing if you are, and i don't know why were spending all this time talking about nothing in comparison

 

[jet53]

.................

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Regardless of the political slant on your posts, which is evident however you try to disguise it, any one who fishes in my region (the South west) with a current and valid license is allowed to take, from a river the following:

One Pike of less than 65cm per day

Two Grayling between 30 and 38 cm per day

Up to 15 Barbel, Chub, Common Bream, common Carp smelt or Tench including any hybrids of less than 20cm per day.

All measurements taken from the nose to the fork of the tail.

The problem arises when people are fishing without Permission, regardless of having a valid EA license or not. That is Theft and is a crime as has been pointed out many times above.

Fish in rivers are considered to be no one's property whereas those in Still-waters actually belong to the owner, so said owner has the expectation of ownership without fear of theft, as provided for in Law.

Personally I will report anyone to the Police who are fishing without permission, or fishing in the Close Season, and have done so many times, and I would urge all others to do likewise, regardless of where the culprits might hail from.

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

I have removed a huge hook and set line from Barn Elms pond fishery, that was some time ago, Oh, and the 5 lb common carp that was tethered got released.I wonder if anything has been left or is this another stillwater devoid of life??
I still recall the devastation on Potomac Pond in Gunnersbury park. as soon as the EE's moved in after the live on site bailiffs moved away, the fishery was finished.Utterly destroyed.
I don't doubt some fish will have escaped capture but it might as well be empty of water. Even the ducks were trapped. Bags of litter and disposable barbecues are testament to this.
This is the future, because after royally screwing up their own back yards they're quite happy to continue the practice over here.
Personally I couldn't care less if folks got a cheap quote on their loft extension or the new patio, I would rather burn a fiver before I give these parasites my money.
I'm not apologising for being a fascist,I don't think I am fascist but I cannot abide the ruination,pee taking and community destruction of this country...or its perpetrators both indigenous and immigrant.
I sincerely hope **** get a good showing and Westminster is forced to start putting Britons first before the rest of the world.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Final Moderation warning:

For this, or indeed any other thread that has a post which includes politics or political parties will be removed and the contributor will receive a one week ban.

The rules here are quite simple and designed to avoid unnecessary arguments, and those always begin with politics or religion, so please read the T&C's that you all agreed to when signing up here on FM as well as the advisories on the forums home page.

The moderation team understand that with the election just days away that there is a temptation to advertise the party of your choice.

Regardless, the rules will be upheld by the entire moderation team. If you feel so inclined then go and post on Facebook where such comments appear to be allowed or even encouraged.

They are not here!

 

[trotter2]

Fishing without permission is a Schedule 1 Theft Act 1968, and therefore a criminal, offence.

No angling club would need to take the culprit(s) to court as this will be done by the Police and the CPS.

So, even if the case is not proven then there would be no costs at all for the club.

New Police code for Theft of Fishing Rights to make reporting crime easier - The Angling Trust

The Police will only take a case to court if there is in there view enough evidence to prosecute.
Peter I don't know what its like in your area but getting the law present at a poaching incident is virtually imposable around here. That's before the law breakers run off that is . Just out of curiosity what was the turn out time for a constable I noticed your from Wiltshire. The only time they turn out in good time around here is when there has been aggressive or an act of violence at the seen.

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Photographic evidence is often all that is needed, in the case of the poacher, below, the dimbo actually posed for the picture when he saw me taking it. Doh!
The angler fishing in the close season was photographed together with his vehicle license plate

The last two occasions, one fishing in the close season and the other poaching on a section of a chalk stream where I have a rod the response time was less than 30 minutes.

Prior to the Crime Code being instigated and used we were lucky if they even turned out at all.

The code is: Code for Theft of Fishing Rights: 116/11

The police are then obliged to investigate but how long it takes varies I guess from area to area. Thankfully, here in Wiltshire rural crime is taken very seriously . . . . . .

 

[maggot_dangler]

Regardless of the political slant on your posts, which is evident however you try to disguise it, any one who fishes in my region (the South west) with a current and valid license is allowed to take, from a river the following:

One Pike of less than 65cm per day

Two Grayling between 30 and 38 cm per day

Up to 15 Barbel, Chub, Common Bream, common Carp smelt or Tench including any hybrids of less than 20cm per day.

All measurements taken from the nose to the fork of the tail.

The problem arises when people are fishing without Permission, regardless of having a valid EA license or not. That is Theft and is a crime as has been pointed out many times above.

Fish in rivers are considered to be no one's property whereas those in Still-waters actually belong to the owner, so said owner has the expectation of ownership without fear of theft, as provided for in Law.

Personally I will report anyone to the Police who are fishing without permission, or fishing in the Close Season, and have done so many times, and I would urge all others to do likewise, regardless of where the culprits might hail from.

Well then in that case we need to very quickley reduce those figures you quoted to a big fat ZERO , Then and only then will we have done anything to make a start at solving the present day problems enthroned upon us by people with little to no brain ..

Note no political content ..


PG ..

 

[Peter Jacobs]

Well then in that case we need to very quickley reduce those figures you quoted to a big fat ZERO

Well, that would be a case for the EA to instigate and then have made into Law.

Each EA Region has similar regulations w.r.t. the legal taking of fish from a river.

Take a look here to see those in force in your region:

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/local-fishing-byelaws

 

[arthur2sheds]

Final Moderation warning:

For this, or indeed any other thread that has a post which includes politics or political parties will be removed and the contributor will receive a one week ban.

The rules here are quite simple and designed to avoid unnecessary arguments, and those always begin with politics or religion, so please read the T&C's that you all agreed to when signing up here on FM as well as the advisories on the forums home page.

The moderation team understand that with the election just days away that there is a temptation to advertise the party of your choice.

Regardless, the rules will be upheld by the entire moderation team. If you feel so inclined then go and post on Facebook where such comments appear to be allowed or even encouraged.

They are not here!

Given that the original post is about EE law breakers, the EA, police and government action, the whole thread will take on a political slant. It's something you cannot avoid when it comes down to discussing laws, races and creeds....

TBH I'd just as soon have a total ban on all political subjects on an angling forum, but sometimes it can't help running headlong into it when faced with legislation and the like, so where does one go from there.....?

If the government of the day (regardless of political leanings) decided to pass laws that obstructed our rights to fish, would that subject be banned also....? tis a large balancing act I s'pose

I'm not trying to be contentious here... (especially as a relative newbie) but sometimes you can't help a political discussion here and there....!

 

[Nobby C (ACA)]

Untwist your knickers Peter, the real issues to not just fishing but other,more needful basics of our cultural existence are at risk.
Threats of bans are threats to free speech, this thread addresses contentious issues and your stamp of moderation is both heavy handed and unnecessary.
Do as you see fit but you will not suppress peoples will.
I too would prefer to angle in an England as written about by BB,Venebles et al but that pipe dream is long gone, are we not allowed to mourn its passing for the sake of PC?
Something needs to be done and folks here are able to make their own minds up without over zealous policing.
If you ban me for speaking my mind you go right ahead, I'm done here in that case, this problem needs addressing and if you personally, don't allow open debate then I have no desire to belong to such an authoritarian body.I will seek my peace in quiet waters, such as are left and let you wallow in your over zealous world and be happy with it.
Good luck.